Man, I would love it if this kind of thing existed in the US. Unfortunately, shopping for used or refurbished products is increasingly seen less as something smart people do and more as something "poor people" do. I've heard more than one co-worker or family member refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
The closest thing we have around here to a used tool store would be thrift shops that maybe have one broken drill, pawn shops with varying degrees of sketchiness, or rolling the dice on eBay.
That sentiment isn't shared across the whole of the US. One area is in kid stuff. Thrift/secondhand stores selling baby/small child clothes are very common in most suburbs. Kids outgrow stuff very quickly so a lot of parents go to stores that specialize in baby clothes, toys, and various stuff. New designer kid's clothes are mostly bought by grandparents or first time parents. There are some stores the specialize in secondhand sports equipment too - so parents can have a trial run to see if their kid really likes a new sport before investing in it.
Online marketplaces seem to dominate the secondhand market in the US though. Or there is a storefront but also has a big online presence.
By "this kind of thing" I specifically meant the subject of the video: tool stores. Used clothing stores are all over and account for 90% or more of the floor space of most thrift shops. In my area, there are even facebook groups for people to give away their unwated clothes for free. Haven't found any of those for tools, though.
I think this might be because once you have a tool, you either use it forever or until it breaks, and don't sell it in a good enough condition that it would be worth anything. My dad's circular saw, which he found in the trash 40 years ago, will probably last the rest of his life and all of my life.
Used tools are dirty, oily, and heavy. That's why my shop is outfitted with a lot of estate sale finds. Old people croak, and their next of kin don't want to move a half ton of steel (even to the thrift shop, who also doesn't want to move them around their store), so it ends up in the hands of people like me for near scrap prices.
At least in my part of the US (midwest), estate sales are the best place to find old tools. People hold onto them until they die, but then you can buy them! estatesales.net (no affiliation, just a user) lists the vast majority of them, and usually even has pictures of what is for sale that you can scroll through before actually going. I've gotten a lot of insane deals on tools this way -- just recently bought a vintage (good quality, perfect working order) 10inch wood bandsaw for $20!.
Yep. I'm in the Midwest too. I paid $15 for my chop saw, and it's a lot nicer one than I would have bought new. My table saw cost $6, probably because the plug on the end of the power cord was gone. New plug for $3, and it's fine. Handheld tools like circular saws and drills typically go for $3-5.
I get a dud once in a while, but at those prices, I still end up way ahead overall.
These are so hit and miss - sometimes they’re just everything is incredibly overpriced and sometimes if you show up late, you get an entire garage tools for less than the scrap value of the metal.
Hah. There was an estate sale in my neighborhood last summer. Quite a few tools in the garage that I was interested in but the prices were crazy. 30-50 year-old tools priced the same as brand-new. Even asking 50% off would be been too much for a lot of the stuff. I asked if they would take X for something and the guy said, "we're not doing any discounts, everything is as marked."
Walked back to my car shaking my head. Guess they didn't want to actually sell anything.
I really want to know what happens afterwards. Sometimes it makes sense - a widow trying to clear out her husband's garage without much understanding of what it is - so prices it what she remembers him buying it for.
But others are run by professional estate companies; either they know they can get certain prices online (where?) or they do some form of scam where they overprice everything and when it doesn't sell they offer some "bargain price" to clear the house out.
^this. Typically there is even a standard where, for example, on a Thu-Sun sale, Thursday and Friday things will be priced as marked, Saturday will be half the marked price, and Sunday will be 1/4 the marked price. It's essentially a form of price discrimination: if you want the thing badly enough, you'll come earlier and pay more. If you're willing to chance it, you can maybe get 75% off by rolling in on Sunday.
I've been finding lots of good used tools on Facebook Marketplace. I've bought a handheld belt sander, a circular saw, clamps, and more without anyone scamming me or giving me a broken tools.
I've never had a problem with used tools on eBay. If the seller isn't absurdly correct in their posting, eBay will take your side.
The only thing that has ever gone wrong on eBay for me was when a seller claimed I didn't return an expensive item that the regular price had dropped on by the original company (he was selling multiple of this item that was now $200 less than his asking price from the main supplier website). He was going to eat a couple hundred dollars so he tried to screw me over.
I sent pictures and videos of me packaging and mailing the item to eBay and got my refund. They didn't let me review the seller, though. It would've been an amazing review of that human turd.
I sold a Mavic 2 Pro drone with 5 batteries. The whole process was a mess. Scammer initially complained that it didn't come with the CrystalSky tablet in one picture (that was only added AFTER after start of bidding BY the scammer, to show Flight Logs, andwas explicitly disclaimed as not being a part of the package, nor was it in the receipts I sent the buyer). After pointing out those details, silence.
Then, three weeks later:
"The batteries don't work. I want a refund."
"Batteries? Any of them? All of them?"
"All of them, none work. I want a refund."
Note that two of the batteries were less than 4 months old, still in warranty.
He then stated he wanted a refund of $800. Realize that five brand-new batteries would only be $670.
No evidence was shown, despite multiple requests (like a video of a battery on a charger, or on the drone, failing to power up). I stated I'd like to get the original batteries back, as at least I'd be able to get them replaced under warranty or possibly repaired and recoup some of my money (I was skeptical there was -any- issue, but still, good faith). He "happily" agreed. I asked him to send me a message on eBay (so it was tracked and not avoiding their system) acknowledging that offering a partial refund was contingent on his sending me the batteries back and that he accepts me disputing the refund if not.
He sends a message indicating all of the above.
Refund is sent (for about $700, to include his return shipping costs).
Thirty-five minutes later, I get a message, "USPS says they don't ship damaged batteries, so I will not be returning them". (35 minutes? So what, you sat around waiting for the refund, and then the moment I sent the money, you jumped in your car, got to the post office, had this discussion, got home, and were able to send me this message? When your home address shows you about 15 minutes from the nearest post office?)
I then suggest we meet in person to exchange them (I live a few hours away, not convenient, but still, $700...). He umms and ahhs, "How will I be able to prove that I gave them to you in person?". I suggest we do it in a police station and point out that his local PD even welcomes people to use their lobby for CL, etc. on their website. More umms and ahhs. "I need to contact eBay support to see if they allow this." I point him to eBay's specific FAQ page describing exactly this and how they recommend doing in person sales, and refunds, documentation thereof, and how they support it. But he ignores that and says, "I never heard back from eBay support, so I'm not sure what to do". I point this page out again, and he goes silent.
I opened a dispute. No evidence was provided for damage or faulty goods, referenced the multiple requests for video, or of anything.) Multiple instances of the buyer trying to show something was problematic with the listing, not abiding by the agreement and refusing/avoiding any method of returning damaged items.
Overnight, no further inquiries.
"We have closed your dispute. Based on our review, the buyer is entitled to keep the partial refund for damage. He is also not required to return the damaged items".
So he ended up with a Mavic 2 Pro, with less than 20 hours flight time, 5 batteries, for in the order of $950, all told.
That sucks. I've been selling things on eBay for... longer than I care say out loud but I've read enough horror stories that I don't think I could get the nerve to sell anything high-priced for fear that I would get scammed by a "professional buyer" like you did. They know eBay's rules and how to work within them to get what they want. Unfortunately, as a seller you have to know the rules as well as they do (or better) to keep the scam from working, and even that is not always a guarantee.
When there is a dispute or request for a refund, as a seller, the hardest part is knowing the correction action to take when these things happen. If you do the wrong thing, or do the right things in the wrong order, you unknowingly paint yourself into a corner. You basically have to be your own "ebay rules lawyer" and read _all_ the docs and policies (some of which are hard to find) as well as discussion threads.
One of the big things I do to defend myself against scammer buyers is I make it clear that I don't offer partial refunds, only full product returns where return shipping is (initially) at the buyer's expense and the shipping is reimbursed ONLY if the item is received by me in good condition. This isn't 100% protection against the kind of scam you encountered, but it's been effective for me so far.
An additional trick for handling some kinds of suspected scam eBay buyer problem reports, which has worked for me multiple times...
I ask the buyer to double-check, saying that if there's still a problem, I'll refund their money and ask the Postal Inspector to investigate how the problem could've happened.
Whether it works because the person is sure to go and double-check, and thereby realizes an honest mistake, or because the complaint wasn't honest to begin with, I can only guess.
> I've heard more than one co-worker or family member refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
Well, there are lots of people with more money than intelligence. Knowing how to evaluate purchases for quality is a basic life skill, if you always buy whatever's available brand new you'll get taken.
People like that tend to be fairly helpless as soon as they're outside of where they feel comfortable.
This is such a shame to hear. I buy almost all my large electronics used (laptop / cellphone), used vehicles are often a steal, I love used clothes, recently looked into buying a used suit (but I found a comparable quality new suit for less), I'll even by mattresses/bedding/furniture used if it's coming from a friend (so I can confirm I won't get bed bugs). I don't know what my point is here, I guess just that used stuff is soooooo good for the price.
I don't think that the 'shiny object' allure applies to industrial tools to the same degree as with consumer goods. Every machine shop I've ever been in, save for maybe a couple, is stuffed with used machine tools, plenty of them older than anyone who works there.
There's a healthy market for machine tools at auction, they're just not things your typical homegamer would need/want/be able to use (example: $200 for a 240/3ph drill press)
That's a shame, many US metros have a Habitat for Humanity ReStore[1], I volunteer at one, which certainly does have used hand and power tools, some pretty beat, others just fine (the obviously busted ones that are donated get broken down for recycling).
I wonder if they vary in quality by location? I've stopped into ours at least a half-dozen times and never found anything interesting.
We _used_ to have a warehouse-sized second-chance store for home items and building materials. It was run by the city and all items were donated. Prices on most everything was very reasonable and all the funds went towards running the store and maintaining the city's other recycling programs. It was great. Every time I went in there, I came out with something awesome and only a slightly lighter wallet. (Generally tools or lumber.) Unfortunately, they shut it down at the start of COVID for unclear reasons and never reopened.
They definitely vary, but I’ve never been to one that was particularly great tbh (always cheap, never a huge selection). But I was always looking more for building materials than tools, and unfortunately we had two great architectural salvage warehouses that closed recently, so I might have look a bit further afield for my next home projects.
> refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
I suppose this is true enough, in terms of risk, when you're talking about yard sales etc. But I'm perfectly comfortable buying from places that screen, test, and possibly even refurbish the incoming inventory before reselling it. I've bought many cell phones from resellers like this online, and I find that pawn and thift shops generally do a good job at this.
Speak for yourself, sure, and maybe your coworker or family, but not an entire country. Tool libraries and used shops exist in a lot of places in the US. The fact that you don't have nice tools in local thrift shops is as much a sign that the people in your community hold onto, take care of, share and/or repair their tools as anything else.
If you find some old commercial grade tools (like a general contractor might've bought decades ago), the ones I've used are built like tanks, and a given one probably works fine.
that, and thrift has been utterly destroyed by resellers. thrift stores now have to raise their prices on whatever crap hasn't been picked out by resellers already. thrift shopping used to be a lot more like going to yard/estate sales but now almost everything left is just the absolute bottom of the barrel, and anything that isn't is so expensive you might as well buy new.
At my local thrift store I recently saw someone come in with full gear, like a barcode scanner on their fingertip and a phone mounted on their wrist. They scan and price out everything with a barcode. It's pretty bizarre.
> I've heard more than one co-worker or family member refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
Well, products just aren't built to last these days. Just take electronic devices... for phones, if it's not an iPhone and maybe a flagship Samsung, after two years the resale value isn't much because it's either bent and scratched to hell or it won't get any more software update. For laptops it's just the same. After 2-3 years, unless it's Apple, usually the battery is shot, the hinges are worn out and the plastic body next to the touchpad is as discolored as the keyboard is.
Cars are also pretty bad. It's either "buy a new car and risk a lemon" or "buy an used car and pay the difference to a new car in repair costs", and on top of that the second-hand car market is pretty dead. You can't do much in terms of repair yourself any more on any car younger than 10-15 years when cars started to be hyper-crash-optimized computers on wheels, with a shrunken chemical factory attached to the exhaust port.
Furniture, even worse. Almost nothing is made from real raw cut lumber any more for weight and cost reasons, it's all sawdust and glue... or in IKEA's newest trend, cardboard.
Clothing for adults, that's the worst, the fast fashion/shein/... crap completely tanked the market. The stuff that you get offered is falling apart after maybe two washes.
The places where second hand still rocks are the ones where either the market is slooow moving (ham radios) or baby stuff because babies grow out of stuff and need new stuff so fast that it doesn't really make sense.
That may be true overall, but it depends on the tool. I've bought a lot of my tools for a few bucks at farm and estate auctions. I have two large Craftsman adjustable wrenches. The older one, made in the US, is heavier and there's a lot less play in the mechanism, so it's the one I reach for first. That's been typical for me.
Generally, newer tools are lighter, which is nice when you're carrying them around, but sometimes it means they're more fragile. I have a 1955 McCulloch chainsaw, and it's a beast, must weigh 40 pounds and have about 200 parts in it. The carb is a complicated thing with a lot of moving parts, and there's a gearbox between the engine and the chain. But I bought it for $12, cleaned it up a little, got a stuck part in the carb unstuck, and it started. Not bad for a 70-year-old piece of equipment that looked like it'd been gathering dust for years.
My 2024 Stihl is a much better saw. It's far lighter, which is important when you're carrying it all day. It's much simpler, with fewer things that can go wrong with it. It runs higher RPMs, so it cuts wood faster. But there's enough plastic in it that there's no way it's going to be around in 70 years. I'll be happy if I get 10 out of it.
The ideal would be the design quality of the Stihl, with all the legitimate improvements they've made over the decades, with the materials quality and manufacturing care of the McCulloch. That combination is probably available in a high-end line, just not at consumer prices.
It used to be there was one hardware store in town and you bought what they carried, and they would carry tools of a sufficient quality to avoid returns and complaints.
Now you can buy tools from several thousand different manufacturers and people trend towards the less expensive options.
You can also, with just a little research, buy the best in the world from anywhere in the world. (edit: for now)
I built sets for a small regional theater company back in the 90s and we had, at the time, state-of-the-art cordless Makita power tools. Today's Makitas are so much better it is ludicrous. The old skinny-handled Makitas were barely powerful enough to do the job, the batteries didn't last long and had memory issues, the chucks were clunky, brushes would wear out extremely quickly, and the plastic was so brittle if you dropped them the housing would often crack or split.
I remember having to pre-drill thousands of pilot holes for screws and bolts, not because I was worried about the wood splitting but because the drills weren't powerful enough for longer and/or thicker screws.
Modern Makitas are more robust, more powerful, smaller and lighter, and more reliable.
They can drive 3/4" hex head lag bolts into soaking wet wood all day, something that was impossible for (or destructive to) 80s and 90s tools.
In the 80s and 90s I had the same Craftsman screwdriver set that everyone else in America had-- the ones with the clear handles that turned into a cylinder of greased ice the second a single drop of oil got on them.
Now I have a nice set of Weras and even when wearing oil-soaked gloves they are easy to grip.
I have distinct memories of my dad (a contractor/carpenter) buying his first cordless circular saw and returning it because it struggled with a 2x6, and a few days ago my friend was using a fairly inexpensive 20v cordless chainsaw to take down some trees. It’s wild.
I have used some hand-me-down tools from my father and recently bought new tools. I don't have 20 years experience, so take my opinion for what it is worth, but I concur with the repair guy.
It is a very common gripe that items have decreased in quality compared to some 'golden era' in the past. You've likely heard somebody say "They don't make 'em like they used to!" I think the parent comment is saying it's interesting to hear a technician say quality has _increased_, because the opposite complaint is so stereotypically common.
Tool quality has definitely improved over time, but... and this is a big but... many people buy lower quality tools now than were available previously because of their low cost. I would put any of my Japanese or German/Czech hand tools up against any of the big brands of the past (many of which I also own thanks to yard/garage sales) and say they're better, not just from an ergonomics and design perspective but from an actual strength/reliability perspective. Most people, at least in the US, though are only familiar with low-quality China/Taiwan made tools which have lower quality metals and a lot of plastic content when it comes to hand tools.
If you invest a bit of effort into finding good hand tools, the options are much better these days but you have to be willing to pay.
Paolo has a bunch of cool vids on this topic, I've watched them all. I binged through them for hours when I first discovered the channel...my initial reaction was: Damn how long people in Japan work. Most people seemingly woke up, went to work, went out to eat and drink, and then get maybe a couple of hours at home before it all repeats.
Longtime Paolo fan, he does a great job with his "typical workday" series.
Not sure of the exact number he's done, but I personally estimate I've watched at least 20-25 of these across a wide range of industries (majority are in food preparation/service but he also covers construction, tech, animation, airlines, education, politics, and many more) and if there's one overriding takeaway it's the Japanese as a culture are extremely committed to maximizing product quality.
It could be selection bias (maybe he only films exemplary people) but it doesn't seem to matter if you're dealing with someone preparing food, fighting fires, or delivering packages these people seem to really care about the overall quality of the service or product they provide.
It’s not surprising. They have a strong cultural identity and their whole country is far nicer and cleaner than any country I’ve been to.
Most immigrants here (I live in SF) are to be completely honest, not from very strong cultural identities. I’m an immigrant too, and my own people aren’t that strong with their cultural identities. After all, we GTFO’d the moment we or our parents could. Whenever I’ve been back I hated the filth and pollution everywhere, and the lack of care considering the litter and trash everywhere. It’s gross and sad.
Japanese people are happy with their culture on a broader level. I’m sure they have their problems too. Everyone does.
When I visited Japan I was so blown away by how proper and organized people were. It inspired me to live a more organized life. I went all over in both cities and rural areas, never saw trash. People were kind even with the language barrier. Even their homeless (they only have like 20k total) were polite and organized.
In a collective culture like Japan, you take care of your responsibilities yourself to improve the collective good. It’s basically the opposite of the tragedy of the commons in individualistic cultures, IMO.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered not because of a requirement that you conform, but because you’re not doing your responsibilities, so someone else has to do it.
America is much more conformist than Japan, it’s just than in Japan you’ll work a mediocre job and enjoy it because that’s your role and you appreciate that you’re a part of a whole. Whereas in America you might be able to theoretically do “better”, but there’s no safety.
> The nail that sticks out gets hammered not because of a requirement that you conform, but because you’re not doing your responsibilities, so someone else has to do it.
Unfortunately, in practice it's ingrained by a tonne of instances of getting told off for minor infractions of seemingly very arbitrary rules, to the point where it's so ingrained that you just stop questioning it because it's not worth the energy to do so anymore.
The video where he interviews a lawyer on the Japanese "guilty until proven innocent" legal system was pretty scary if I'm being honest.
They apparently try to force a confession even if you're innocent as the alternative is to basically let you stay in jail for up to 23 days per infraction. There is no bail and they interrogate you without a lawyer present (lawyer not allowed). It's honestly made me second guess traveling there as a foreigner. I'm incredibly respectful of other cultures, but would be scared something weird would happen and I'd somehow disappear into that administrative nightmare. You can't even talk to your family until that period is over, so you just roll the dice and hope confessing gets you a slap on the wrist.
On the plus side, I know the cities are supposed to be super safe.
His videos are well produced and I've watched quite a few of them, but it always weirded me out how much he says "Japanese" like he's figured out the algorithm will favor him more if it detects he's saying that a lot
Go to any of his videos with his wife, he'll consistently refer to her as "my Japanese wife"
Well the wife bit is probably to explain that she's part of the culture. If his wife was, say, French, it wouldn't really make sense why he's explaining what she does.
I'm also a huge fan. Started watching him after a Japan trip. I like the format so much, I'd love to have something similar (day in the life) for various other countries.
Reuse and repair is also encouraged by having relatively more expensive, high quality but lower-production-quantity goods. When it costs less to buy something new, more gets discarded.
It's hard to ignore the labor costs to repair things like hand tools. For someone doing it for themselves it's not an issue, but when it is your day job it can be a lot harder to do the repairs without driving the price of the tool beyond the cost of a new one. Not if you want to keep current on the rent and have money for groceries.
As the price of goods drop you will observe the subsequent decline of repair shops for said good. TV repair shops used to be in every medium size and larger city. They are now extinct. Vacuum cleaner repair only exists for specialty brands. Computer repair is sometimes a side business but it's also dying out. Cell phone repair is still a thing, but mostly because screens break a lot and batteries are wear items so there is at least a good volume of customers. Appliance repair is still a thing, but the spare parts situation has gotten so bad that even they tend to be closing shop.
We have a used tool store like this near where I live. While technically being within city limits of the county seat it's located in the kind of population density that HN turns up its nose at for being unsustainable. But it's fairly easy to get to off a couple major highways so in practice it's more accessible to the kind of people who tend to need rebar tying guns and chain come alongs than it would be if it were downtown. It's possible it couldn't even exist downtown because its inventory might not turn over fast enough to pay the rent.
Man, I would love it if this kind of thing existed in the US. Unfortunately, shopping for used or refurbished products is increasingly seen less as something smart people do and more as something "poor people" do. I've heard more than one co-worker or family member refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
The closest thing we have around here to a used tool store would be thrift shops that maybe have one broken drill, pawn shops with varying degrees of sketchiness, or rolling the dice on eBay.
Having to deal with month long escrow and ID tracking so that law enforcement can potentially claw back inventory is another dealbreaker.
That sentiment isn't shared across the whole of the US. One area is in kid stuff. Thrift/secondhand stores selling baby/small child clothes are very common in most suburbs. Kids outgrow stuff very quickly so a lot of parents go to stores that specialize in baby clothes, toys, and various stuff. New designer kid's clothes are mostly bought by grandparents or first time parents. There are some stores the specialize in secondhand sports equipment too - so parents can have a trial run to see if their kid really likes a new sport before investing in it.
Online marketplaces seem to dominate the secondhand market in the US though. Or there is a storefront but also has a big online presence.
By "this kind of thing" I specifically meant the subject of the video: tool stores. Used clothing stores are all over and account for 90% or more of the floor space of most thrift shops. In my area, there are even facebook groups for people to give away their unwated clothes for free. Haven't found any of those for tools, though.
I think this might be because once you have a tool, you either use it forever or until it breaks, and don't sell it in a good enough condition that it would be worth anything. My dad's circular saw, which he found in the trash 40 years ago, will probably last the rest of his life and all of my life.
Used tools are dirty, oily, and heavy. That's why my shop is outfitted with a lot of estate sale finds. Old people croak, and their next of kin don't want to move a half ton of steel (even to the thrift shop, who also doesn't want to move them around their store), so it ends up in the hands of people like me for near scrap prices.
As someone looking for a piano. It seems to be the same there. Prices from 'get this thing away from me' to 'care to take out a small 50k loan?'.
At least in my part of the US (midwest), estate sales are the best place to find old tools. People hold onto them until they die, but then you can buy them! estatesales.net (no affiliation, just a user) lists the vast majority of them, and usually even has pictures of what is for sale that you can scroll through before actually going. I've gotten a lot of insane deals on tools this way -- just recently bought a vintage (good quality, perfect working order) 10inch wood bandsaw for $20!.
Yep. I'm in the Midwest too. I paid $15 for my chop saw, and it's a lot nicer one than I would have bought new. My table saw cost $6, probably because the plug on the end of the power cord was gone. New plug for $3, and it's fine. Handheld tools like circular saws and drills typically go for $3-5.
I get a dud once in a while, but at those prices, I still end up way ahead overall.
These are so hit and miss - sometimes they’re just everything is incredibly overpriced and sometimes if you show up late, you get an entire garage tools for less than the scrap value of the metal.
Hah. There was an estate sale in my neighborhood last summer. Quite a few tools in the garage that I was interested in but the prices were crazy. 30-50 year-old tools priced the same as brand-new. Even asking 50% off would be been too much for a lot of the stuff. I asked if they would take X for something and the guy said, "we're not doing any discounts, everything is as marked."
Walked back to my car shaking my head. Guess they didn't want to actually sell anything.
I really want to know what happens afterwards. Sometimes it makes sense - a widow trying to clear out her husband's garage without much understanding of what it is - so prices it what she remembers him buying it for.
But others are run by professional estate companies; either they know they can get certain prices online (where?) or they do some form of scam where they overprice everything and when it doesn't sell they offer some "bargain price" to clear the house out.
The last day of most estate sales is when heavy discounts are available.
^this. Typically there is even a standard where, for example, on a Thu-Sun sale, Thursday and Friday things will be priced as marked, Saturday will be half the marked price, and Sunday will be 1/4 the marked price. It's essentially a form of price discrimination: if you want the thing badly enough, you'll come earlier and pay more. If you're willing to chance it, you can maybe get 75% off by rolling in on Sunday.
I've been finding lots of good used tools on Facebook Marketplace. I've bought a handheld belt sander, a circular saw, clamps, and more without anyone scamming me or giving me a broken tools.
Dealing with the general public is a different experience. Facebook Marketplace can be a frustrating place. The pre-written messages for example.
I've never had a problem with used tools on eBay. If the seller isn't absurdly correct in their posting, eBay will take your side.
The only thing that has ever gone wrong on eBay for me was when a seller claimed I didn't return an expensive item that the regular price had dropped on by the original company (he was selling multiple of this item that was now $200 less than his asking price from the main supplier website). He was going to eat a couple hundred dollars so he tried to screw me over.
I sent pictures and videos of me packaging and mailing the item to eBay and got my refund. They didn't let me review the seller, though. It would've been an amazing review of that human turd.
eBay let someone scam me out of $700.
I sold a Mavic 2 Pro drone with 5 batteries. The whole process was a mess. Scammer initially complained that it didn't come with the CrystalSky tablet in one picture (that was only added AFTER after start of bidding BY the scammer, to show Flight Logs, andwas explicitly disclaimed as not being a part of the package, nor was it in the receipts I sent the buyer). After pointing out those details, silence.
Then, three weeks later:
"The batteries don't work. I want a refund."
"Batteries? Any of them? All of them?"
"All of them, none work. I want a refund."
Note that two of the batteries were less than 4 months old, still in warranty.
He then stated he wanted a refund of $800. Realize that five brand-new batteries would only be $670.
No evidence was shown, despite multiple requests (like a video of a battery on a charger, or on the drone, failing to power up). I stated I'd like to get the original batteries back, as at least I'd be able to get them replaced under warranty or possibly repaired and recoup some of my money (I was skeptical there was -any- issue, but still, good faith). He "happily" agreed. I asked him to send me a message on eBay (so it was tracked and not avoiding their system) acknowledging that offering a partial refund was contingent on his sending me the batteries back and that he accepts me disputing the refund if not.
He sends a message indicating all of the above.
Refund is sent (for about $700, to include his return shipping costs).
Thirty-five minutes later, I get a message, "USPS says they don't ship damaged batteries, so I will not be returning them". (35 minutes? So what, you sat around waiting for the refund, and then the moment I sent the money, you jumped in your car, got to the post office, had this discussion, got home, and were able to send me this message? When your home address shows you about 15 minutes from the nearest post office?)
I then suggest we meet in person to exchange them (I live a few hours away, not convenient, but still, $700...). He umms and ahhs, "How will I be able to prove that I gave them to you in person?". I suggest we do it in a police station and point out that his local PD even welcomes people to use their lobby for CL, etc. on their website. More umms and ahhs. "I need to contact eBay support to see if they allow this." I point him to eBay's specific FAQ page describing exactly this and how they recommend doing in person sales, and refunds, documentation thereof, and how they support it. But he ignores that and says, "I never heard back from eBay support, so I'm not sure what to do". I point this page out again, and he goes silent.
I opened a dispute. No evidence was provided for damage or faulty goods, referenced the multiple requests for video, or of anything.) Multiple instances of the buyer trying to show something was problematic with the listing, not abiding by the agreement and refusing/avoiding any method of returning damaged items.
Overnight, no further inquiries.
"We have closed your dispute. Based on our review, the buyer is entitled to keep the partial refund for damage. He is also not required to return the damaged items".
So he ended up with a Mavic 2 Pro, with less than 20 hours flight time, 5 batteries, for in the order of $950, all told.
That sucks. I've been selling things on eBay for... longer than I care say out loud but I've read enough horror stories that I don't think I could get the nerve to sell anything high-priced for fear that I would get scammed by a "professional buyer" like you did. They know eBay's rules and how to work within them to get what they want. Unfortunately, as a seller you have to know the rules as well as they do (or better) to keep the scam from working, and even that is not always a guarantee.
When there is a dispute or request for a refund, as a seller, the hardest part is knowing the correction action to take when these things happen. If you do the wrong thing, or do the right things in the wrong order, you unknowingly paint yourself into a corner. You basically have to be your own "ebay rules lawyer" and read _all_ the docs and policies (some of which are hard to find) as well as discussion threads.
One of the big things I do to defend myself against scammer buyers is I make it clear that I don't offer partial refunds, only full product returns where return shipping is (initially) at the buyer's expense and the shipping is reimbursed ONLY if the item is received by me in good condition. This isn't 100% protection against the kind of scam you encountered, but it's been effective for me so far.
An additional trick for handling some kinds of suspected scam eBay buyer problem reports, which has worked for me multiple times...
I ask the buyer to double-check, saying that if there's still a problem, I'll refund their money and ask the Postal Inspector to investigate how the problem could've happened.
Whether it works because the person is sure to go and double-check, and thereby realizes an honest mistake, or because the complaint wasn't honest to begin with, I can only guess.
I never ever sell anything online for this reason. In-person only, cash in hand or GTFO.
You could still go to small claims court!
> Man, I would love it if this kind of thing existed in the US.
Then actually come to the US instead of making assumptions and you will see that it most definitely does!
> I've heard more than one co-worker or family member refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
Well, there are lots of people with more money than intelligence. Knowing how to evaluate purchases for quality is a basic life skill, if you always buy whatever's available brand new you'll get taken.
People like that tend to be fairly helpless as soon as they're outside of where they feel comfortable.
This is such a shame to hear. I buy almost all my large electronics used (laptop / cellphone), used vehicles are often a steal, I love used clothes, recently looked into buying a used suit (but I found a comparable quality new suit for less), I'll even by mattresses/bedding/furniture used if it's coming from a friend (so I can confirm I won't get bed bugs). I don't know what my point is here, I guess just that used stuff is soooooo good for the price.
I don't think that the 'shiny object' allure applies to industrial tools to the same degree as with consumer goods. Every machine shop I've ever been in, save for maybe a couple, is stuffed with used machine tools, plenty of them older than anyone who works there.
There's a healthy market for machine tools at auction, they're just not things your typical homegamer would need/want/be able to use (example: $200 for a 240/3ph drill press)
That's a shame, many US metros have a Habitat for Humanity ReStore[1], I volunteer at one, which certainly does have used hand and power tools, some pretty beat, others just fine (the obviously busted ones that are donated get broken down for recycling).
1: https://www.habitat.org/restores
I wonder if they vary in quality by location? I've stopped into ours at least a half-dozen times and never found anything interesting.
We _used_ to have a warehouse-sized second-chance store for home items and building materials. It was run by the city and all items were donated. Prices on most everything was very reasonable and all the funds went towards running the store and maintaining the city's other recycling programs. It was great. Every time I went in there, I came out with something awesome and only a slightly lighter wallet. (Generally tools or lumber.) Unfortunately, they shut it down at the start of COVID for unclear reasons and never reopened.
They definitely vary, but I’ve never been to one that was particularly great tbh (always cheap, never a huge selection). But I was always looking more for building materials than tools, and unfortunately we had two great architectural salvage warehouses that closed recently, so I might have look a bit further afield for my next home projects.
> refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
I suppose this is true enough, in terms of risk, when you're talking about yard sales etc. But I'm perfectly comfortable buying from places that screen, test, and possibly even refurbish the incoming inventory before reselling it. I've bought many cell phones from resellers like this online, and I find that pawn and thift shops generally do a good job at this.
Speak for yourself, sure, and maybe your coworker or family, but not an entire country. Tool libraries and used shops exist in a lot of places in the US. The fact that you don't have nice tools in local thrift shops is as much a sign that the people in your community hold onto, take care of, share and/or repair their tools as anything else.
Yard sales?
If you find some old commercial grade tools (like a general contractor might've bought decades ago), the ones I've used are built like tanks, and a given one probably works fine.
that, and thrift has been utterly destroyed by resellers. thrift stores now have to raise their prices on whatever crap hasn't been picked out by resellers already. thrift shopping used to be a lot more like going to yard/estate sales but now almost everything left is just the absolute bottom of the barrel, and anything that isn't is so expensive you might as well buy new.
At my local thrift store I recently saw someone come in with full gear, like a barcode scanner on their fingertip and a phone mounted on their wrist. They scan and price out everything with a barcode. It's pretty bizarre.
We need shipping costs to go up 10 times what they currently are. It would solve a lot of problems.
There are also tool lending libraries in some areas. I love mine <3
> I've heard more than one co-worker or family member refer to buying pre-owned goods as "buying someone else's problem."
Well, products just aren't built to last these days. Just take electronic devices... for phones, if it's not an iPhone and maybe a flagship Samsung, after two years the resale value isn't much because it's either bent and scratched to hell or it won't get any more software update. For laptops it's just the same. After 2-3 years, unless it's Apple, usually the battery is shot, the hinges are worn out and the plastic body next to the touchpad is as discolored as the keyboard is.
Cars are also pretty bad. It's either "buy a new car and risk a lemon" or "buy an used car and pay the difference to a new car in repair costs", and on top of that the second-hand car market is pretty dead. You can't do much in terms of repair yourself any more on any car younger than 10-15 years when cars started to be hyper-crash-optimized computers on wheels, with a shrunken chemical factory attached to the exhaust port.
Furniture, even worse. Almost nothing is made from real raw cut lumber any more for weight and cost reasons, it's all sawdust and glue... or in IKEA's newest trend, cardboard.
Clothing for adults, that's the worst, the fast fashion/shein/... crap completely tanked the market. The stuff that you get offered is falling apart after maybe two washes.
The places where second hand still rocks are the ones where either the market is slooow moving (ham radios) or baby stuff because babies grow out of stuff and need new stuff so fast that it doesn't really make sense.
The most interesting part of this video to me is when the repair guy with 20 years of experience says tool quality has improved over time.
That may be true overall, but it depends on the tool. I've bought a lot of my tools for a few bucks at farm and estate auctions. I have two large Craftsman adjustable wrenches. The older one, made in the US, is heavier and there's a lot less play in the mechanism, so it's the one I reach for first. That's been typical for me.
Generally, newer tools are lighter, which is nice when you're carrying them around, but sometimes it means they're more fragile. I have a 1955 McCulloch chainsaw, and it's a beast, must weigh 40 pounds and have about 200 parts in it. The carb is a complicated thing with a lot of moving parts, and there's a gearbox between the engine and the chain. But I bought it for $12, cleaned it up a little, got a stuck part in the carb unstuck, and it started. Not bad for a 70-year-old piece of equipment that looked like it'd been gathering dust for years.
My 2024 Stihl is a much better saw. It's far lighter, which is important when you're carrying it all day. It's much simpler, with fewer things that can go wrong with it. It runs higher RPMs, so it cuts wood faster. But there's enough plastic in it that there's no way it's going to be around in 70 years. I'll be happy if I get 10 out of it.
The ideal would be the design quality of the Stihl, with all the legitimate improvements they've made over the decades, with the materials quality and manufacturing care of the McCulloch. That combination is probably available in a high-end line, just not at consumer prices.
It used to be there was one hardware store in town and you bought what they carried, and they would carry tools of a sufficient quality to avoid returns and complaints.
Now you can buy tools from several thousand different manufacturers and people trend towards the less expensive options.
You can also, with just a little research, buy the best in the world from anywhere in the world. (edit: for now)
I built sets for a small regional theater company back in the 90s and we had, at the time, state-of-the-art cordless Makita power tools. Today's Makitas are so much better it is ludicrous. The old skinny-handled Makitas were barely powerful enough to do the job, the batteries didn't last long and had memory issues, the chucks were clunky, brushes would wear out extremely quickly, and the plastic was so brittle if you dropped them the housing would often crack or split.
I remember having to pre-drill thousands of pilot holes for screws and bolts, not because I was worried about the wood splitting but because the drills weren't powerful enough for longer and/or thicker screws.
Modern Makitas are more robust, more powerful, smaller and lighter, and more reliable.
They can drive 3/4" hex head lag bolts into soaking wet wood all day, something that was impossible for (or destructive to) 80s and 90s tools.
In the 80s and 90s I had the same Craftsman screwdriver set that everyone else in America had-- the ones with the clear handles that turned into a cylinder of greased ice the second a single drop of oil got on them.
Now I have a nice set of Weras and even when wearing oil-soaked gloves they are easy to grip.
I have distinct memories of my dad (a contractor/carpenter) buying his first cordless circular saw and returning it because it struggled with a 2x6, and a few days ago my friend was using a fairly inexpensive 20v cordless chainsaw to take down some trees. It’s wild.
I have used some hand-me-down tools from my father and recently bought new tools. I don't have 20 years experience, so take my opinion for what it is worth, but I concur with the repair guy.
Pick up anything with a power cord or a battery from 2000 or 1980 and it becomes pretty obvious.
What was so interesting about that? Seems so obvious as to be mundane to me, so I'm curious as to what I could be missing.
It is a very common gripe that items have decreased in quality compared to some 'golden era' in the past. You've likely heard somebody say "They don't make 'em like they used to!" I think the parent comment is saying it's interesting to hear a technician say quality has _increased_, because the opposite complaint is so stereotypically common.
The tools they sell in Japan are different than the ones sold in North America.
Tool quality has definitely improved over time, but... and this is a big but... many people buy lower quality tools now than were available previously because of their low cost. I would put any of my Japanese or German/Czech hand tools up against any of the big brands of the past (many of which I also own thanks to yard/garage sales) and say they're better, not just from an ergonomics and design perspective but from an actual strength/reliability perspective. Most people, at least in the US, though are only familiar with low-quality China/Taiwan made tools which have lower quality metals and a lot of plastic content when it comes to hand tools.
If you invest a bit of effort into finding good hand tools, the options are much better these days but you have to be willing to pay.
On the flip side, the cheap tools are great when I need to use a tool rarely- sometimes once.
Paolo has a bunch of cool vids on this topic, I've watched them all. I binged through them for hours when I first discovered the channel...my initial reaction was: Damn how long people in Japan work. Most people seemingly woke up, went to work, went out to eat and drink, and then get maybe a couple of hours at home before it all repeats.
But on the other side of the spectrum, you have: https://www.youtube.com/@salarymantokyo
Longtime Paolo fan, he does a great job with his "typical workday" series.
Not sure of the exact number he's done, but I personally estimate I've watched at least 20-25 of these across a wide range of industries (majority are in food preparation/service but he also covers construction, tech, animation, airlines, education, politics, and many more) and if there's one overriding takeaway it's the Japanese as a culture are extremely committed to maximizing product quality.
It could be selection bias (maybe he only films exemplary people) but it doesn't seem to matter if you're dealing with someone preparing food, fighting fires, or delivering packages these people seem to really care about the overall quality of the service or product they provide.
A few others worth watching:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0RX59G2jaA (movers...as someone who only has experience with American movers this is ridiculously better than what I experienced)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8A_Hu_WqeQ (package delivery worker)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsLFm5SSJyQ (politician)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjCzavpZoZI (fire fighter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCPZzEbhNJw (anime director)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m4UxbDgGhc (car repair shop worker)
Honestly if you like any of these you'll likely find they're all worth watching.
It’s not surprising. They have a strong cultural identity and their whole country is far nicer and cleaner than any country I’ve been to.
Most immigrants here (I live in SF) are to be completely honest, not from very strong cultural identities. I’m an immigrant too, and my own people aren’t that strong with their cultural identities. After all, we GTFO’d the moment we or our parents could. Whenever I’ve been back I hated the filth and pollution everywhere, and the lack of care considering the litter and trash everywhere. It’s gross and sad.
Japanese people are happy with their culture on a broader level. I’m sure they have their problems too. Everyone does.
When I visited Japan I was so blown away by how proper and organized people were. It inspired me to live a more organized life. I went all over in both cities and rural areas, never saw trash. People were kind even with the language barrier. Even their homeless (they only have like 20k total) were polite and organized.
In a collective culture like Japan, you take care of your responsibilities yourself to improve the collective good. It’s basically the opposite of the tragedy of the commons in individualistic cultures, IMO.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered not because of a requirement that you conform, but because you’re not doing your responsibilities, so someone else has to do it.
America is much more conformist than Japan, it’s just than in Japan you’ll work a mediocre job and enjoy it because that’s your role and you appreciate that you’re a part of a whole. Whereas in America you might be able to theoretically do “better”, but there’s no safety.
> The nail that sticks out gets hammered not because of a requirement that you conform, but because you’re not doing your responsibilities, so someone else has to do it.
Unfortunately, in practice it's ingrained by a tonne of instances of getting told off for minor infractions of seemingly very arbitrary rules, to the point where it's so ingrained that you just stop questioning it because it's not worth the energy to do so anymore.
The video where he interviews a lawyer on the Japanese "guilty until proven innocent" legal system was pretty scary if I'm being honest.
They apparently try to force a confession even if you're innocent as the alternative is to basically let you stay in jail for up to 23 days per infraction. There is no bail and they interrogate you without a lawyer present (lawyer not allowed). It's honestly made me second guess traveling there as a foreigner. I'm incredibly respectful of other cultures, but would be scared something weird would happen and I'd somehow disappear into that administrative nightmare. You can't even talk to your family until that period is over, so you just roll the dice and hope confessing gets you a slap on the wrist.
On the plus side, I know the cities are supposed to be super safe.
Well... in Japan perception is more true than reality, and its legal system is a manifestation of that facet of the culture.
His videos are well produced and I've watched quite a few of them, but it always weirded me out how much he says "Japanese" like he's figured out the algorithm will favor him more if it detects he's saying that a lot
Go to any of his videos with his wife, he'll consistently refer to her as "my Japanese wife"
Well the wife bit is probably to explain that she's part of the culture. If his wife was, say, French, it wouldn't really make sense why he's explaining what she does.
Hey, those weeb eyeballs can translate into good money.
My favorite episode is this [1], the owner is very unique in a way that he is a rare collector of hardcore punk CDs/vinyl.
[1] https://youtu.be/ky0YDKvGggo
I'm also a huge fan. Started watching him after a Japan trip. I like the format so much, I'd love to have something similar (day in the life) for various other countries.
Excellent example how population density can make even reuse/second hand markets viable.
Reuse and repair is also encouraged by having relatively more expensive, high quality but lower-production-quantity goods. When it costs less to buy something new, more gets discarded.
It's hard to ignore the labor costs to repair things like hand tools. For someone doing it for themselves it's not an issue, but when it is your day job it can be a lot harder to do the repairs without driving the price of the tool beyond the cost of a new one. Not if you want to keep current on the rent and have money for groceries.
As the price of goods drop you will observe the subsequent decline of repair shops for said good. TV repair shops used to be in every medium size and larger city. They are now extinct. Vacuum cleaner repair only exists for specialty brands. Computer repair is sometimes a side business but it's also dying out. Cell phone repair is still a thing, but mostly because screens break a lot and batteries are wear items so there is at least a good volume of customers. Appliance repair is still a thing, but the spare parts situation has gotten so bad that even they tend to be closing shop.
Cheap goods kill repair industries.
We have a used tool store like this near where I live. While technically being within city limits of the county seat it's located in the kind of population density that HN turns up its nose at for being unsustainable. But it's fairly easy to get to off a couple major highways so in practice it's more accessible to the kind of people who tend to need rebar tying guns and chain come alongs than it would be if it were downtown. It's possible it couldn't even exist downtown because its inventory might not turn over fast enough to pay the rent.
Population density and I believe relatively business friendly zoning to make it easier to be close to apartments and etc?
I would guess that low yield businesses per storage area is more viable in sparsely populated areas?
Also nationalized control of healthcare costs.
The kindest of interviewers.
NHK World is full of such interviews and documentaries:
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/shows/programs/
Highly recommended - even live (no ads).
You can see how those workers would have a good job satisfaction.
Nice. Thanks for sharing!
nice! Paolo is one of my favorites and this series he's doing is genuinely interesting and documentary of life in japan. Brilliant series.
It seems that shops like this in Japan are only possible because of a government model that doesn't interfere.