> I always wonder how Germans view Kraftwerk, as a Brit they feel as important as the Beatles.
They are hardly present in the public eye. Most people don't know them, except perhaps by name. Their music is probably too niche for the mainstream; they don't even feature in oldies shows on TV. But Kraftwerk is highly regarded by those who are interested in music, perhaps in the same way as Jean-Michel Jarre.
However, it is difficult to compare Kraftwerk with the Beatles. Let's face it: rock music (in the broadest sense) has a much higher profile in the public eye than electronic music.
> They are hardly present in the public eye. Most people don't know them, except perhaps by name. Their music is probably too niche for the mainstream;
The OP talked about their importance, not their current popularity. They directly inspired many who went on to create what is now the electronic music scene. A good example is their influence of the Belleville Three [0] who invented Detroit techno, which inspired Belgian techno, that inspired the UK rave scene that brought the future of electronic music (jungle, drum n bass, grime, etc).
Of the four big electronic music genres of the 80s: electro, house, techno, and hip-hop - Kraftwerk were influences on two of them and arguably three with the more 808 led west-coast hop-hop, like Egyptian Lover.
They are the seed that modern electronic music grew from. Many who produce electronic music, including myself, consider them pioneers.
> However, it is difficult to compare Kraftwerk with the Beatles. Let's face it: rock music (in the broadest sense) has a much higher profile in the public eye than electronic music.
There are no bands in the charts any more [1]. Electronic music (and pop music, which is mostly electronic) has won (at least for now)!
Again though, let’s not confuse popularity with importance — even though Kraftwerk did have massive chart success and still tour to sell out stadiums today — their influence far outstretches the Beatles imho. I think, aside from some interesting recording techniques pioneered at Abbey Road by George Martin, they’re not that influential. Sure, their songs are catchy pop songs, but there wasn’t much innovation there. They’re less important than say Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath (in terms of the evolution of rock music, that is).
Kraftwerk were hugely influential on the pioneers of hip-hop. One clear example is Afrika Bambaataa sampling "Trans-Europe Express" for "Planet Rock," one of the earliest hip-hop records.
Numbers is my favourite Kraftwerk track. I think it's just perfect. I swear you could still play that out and it's as fresh as ever.
I don't know much about pop music but Coldplay were clearly influenced by Computer Love and Kyle Minougue has also borrowed heavily for "Can't Get You Out of My Head". I think both have spoken about Kraftwerk's influence.
> the billboard hot 100 [...] all looks like Beatles style pop songs played with electronic instruments
Correct, and Kraftwerk's enduring influence on the charts is not their compositional style, as excellent as it was. It was by demonstrating that pop music could be performed solely with electronic instruments that they changed the world.
>> who invented Detroit techno, which inspired Belgian techno, that inspired the UK rave scene that brought the future of electronic music (jungle, drum n bass, grime, etc).
Lol, Belgian acts like Technotronic's with 'Pump Up the Jam' and the hyper-commercialisation of the Eurodance scene were not really comparable with the Aceeeed Overpass Parties typified by the likes of Guy Called Gerald, 808 State etc... leading into FSOL, 4Hero and charting a path to something like Goldie eventually.
Belgian Techno > UK Acid House is not a natural progression versus the dozens of new-wave and synth bands influencing everything from Autechre to 808 State via two specific Madchester studios and the Hacienda/FACT scene spurred on by Tony Wilson following his post-punk departure from Granada. The end of the doc 'Synth Brittania' and the Coogan masterpiece '24 Hour Party People' chart the influences and cross-pollination of the scenes at the time.
>> They are the seed that modern electronic music grew from
_A_ seed certainly. Huge debt owed to the 70s UK heads birthing multiple genres just by abusing an EMS VCS 3 if you want to track it directly. Berlin School electronica is a thing as well, with the likes of Tangerine Dream predating Kraftwerk. That's without even getting into Schaeffer, Stockhausen or Carlos in terms of cause/effect.
>> I think, aside from some interesting recording techniques pioneered at Abbey Road by George Martin, they’re not that influential
I mean 'Helter Skelter' alone is a legitimate precursor to Heavy Metal as a Genre, and the amount of double-tracking and tape-loop tricks they introduced post-musique concréte alone would fill a wiki, but asides from that:
- First ever band to perform in a Stadium
- First rock band with a backwards guitar solo
- First band to use a Symphony Orchestra
- First rock band concept Album
- First band to print lyrics on the back of an album cover
- First rock band to use a Moog Synthesiser
- First to use feedback deliberately and intentionally on a rock recording
- First band to use Artificial Double Tracking (ADT)
- First band to Multi-mike drum-kits
Abbey Road alone probably has a dozen more 'firsts' fwiw.
Now we see why Kraftwerk had techno a decade before everybody else. It took a lot of tech to make techno before synths became routine musical instruments.
I wish this was going to a museum in Düsseldorf, it feels like a missed opportunity.
A Kraftwerk museum is exactly the sort of place I’d make a bee-line to as a tourist.
I always wonder how Germans view Kraftwerk, as a Brit they feel as important as the Beatles.
> I always wonder how Germans view Kraftwerk, as a Brit they feel as important as the Beatles.
They are hardly present in the public eye. Most people don't know them, except perhaps by name. Their music is probably too niche for the mainstream; they don't even feature in oldies shows on TV. But Kraftwerk is highly regarded by those who are interested in music, perhaps in the same way as Jean-Michel Jarre.
However, it is difficult to compare Kraftwerk with the Beatles. Let's face it: rock music (in the broadest sense) has a much higher profile in the public eye than electronic music.
> They are hardly present in the public eye. Most people don't know them, except perhaps by name. Their music is probably too niche for the mainstream;
The OP talked about their importance, not their current popularity. They directly inspired many who went on to create what is now the electronic music scene. A good example is their influence of the Belleville Three [0] who invented Detroit techno, which inspired Belgian techno, that inspired the UK rave scene that brought the future of electronic music (jungle, drum n bass, grime, etc).
Of the four big electronic music genres of the 80s: electro, house, techno, and hip-hop - Kraftwerk were influences on two of them and arguably three with the more 808 led west-coast hop-hop, like Egyptian Lover.
They are the seed that modern electronic music grew from. Many who produce electronic music, including myself, consider them pioneers.
> However, it is difficult to compare Kraftwerk with the Beatles. Let's face it: rock music (in the broadest sense) has a much higher profile in the public eye than electronic music.
There are no bands in the charts any more [1]. Electronic music (and pop music, which is mostly electronic) has won (at least for now)!
Again though, let’s not confuse popularity with importance — even though Kraftwerk did have massive chart success and still tour to sell out stadiums today — their influence far outstretches the Beatles imho. I think, aside from some interesting recording techniques pioneered at Abbey Road by George Martin, they’re not that influential. Sure, their songs are catchy pop songs, but there wasn’t much innovation there. They’re less important than say Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath (in terms of the evolution of rock music, that is).
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Belleville_Three
[1] https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9hOyt2oSz1/?igsh=aHIwcG5lZnY...
Kraftwerk were hugely influential on the pioneers of hip-hop. One clear example is Afrika Bambaataa sampling "Trans-Europe Express" for "Planet Rock," one of the earliest hip-hop records.
There are still new songs coming out that use samples from Numbers.
Numbers is my favourite Kraftwerk track. I think it's just perfect. I swear you could still play that out and it's as fresh as ever.
I don't know much about pop music but Coldplay were clearly influenced by Computer Love and Kyle Minougue has also borrowed heavily for "Can't Get You Out of My Head". I think both have spoken about Kraftwerk's influence.
Looking at the billboard hot 100 it all looks like Beatles style pop songs played with electronic instruments and it doesn’t sound much like kraftwerk
> the billboard hot 100 [...] all looks like Beatles style pop songs played with electronic instruments
Correct, and Kraftwerk's enduring influence on the charts is not their compositional style, as excellent as it was. It was by demonstrating that pop music could be performed solely with electronic instruments that they changed the world.
>> who invented Detroit techno, which inspired Belgian techno, that inspired the UK rave scene that brought the future of electronic music (jungle, drum n bass, grime, etc).
Lol, Belgian acts like Technotronic's with 'Pump Up the Jam' and the hyper-commercialisation of the Eurodance scene were not really comparable with the Aceeeed Overpass Parties typified by the likes of Guy Called Gerald, 808 State etc... leading into FSOL, 4Hero and charting a path to something like Goldie eventually.
Belgian Techno > UK Acid House is not a natural progression versus the dozens of new-wave and synth bands influencing everything from Autechre to 808 State via two specific Madchester studios and the Hacienda/FACT scene spurred on by Tony Wilson following his post-punk departure from Granada. The end of the doc 'Synth Brittania' and the Coogan masterpiece '24 Hour Party People' chart the influences and cross-pollination of the scenes at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_Studios https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n93c6
>> They are the seed that modern electronic music grew from
_A_ seed certainly. Huge debt owed to the 70s UK heads birthing multiple genres just by abusing an EMS VCS 3 if you want to track it directly. Berlin School electronica is a thing as well, with the likes of Tangerine Dream predating Kraftwerk. That's without even getting into Schaeffer, Stockhausen or Carlos in terms of cause/effect.
>> I think, aside from some interesting recording techniques pioneered at Abbey Road by George Martin, they’re not that influential
I mean 'Helter Skelter' alone is a legitimate precursor to Heavy Metal as a Genre, and the amount of double-tracking and tape-loop tricks they introduced post-musique concréte alone would fill a wiki, but asides from that:
- First ever band to perform in a Stadium - First rock band with a backwards guitar solo - First band to use a Symphony Orchestra - First rock band concept Album - First band to print lyrics on the back of an album cover - First rock band to use a Moog Synthesiser - First to use feedback deliberately and intentionally on a rock recording - First band to use Artificial Double Tracking (ADT) - First band to Multi-mike drum-kits
Abbey Road alone probably has a dozen more 'firsts' fwiw.
> Belgian Techno > UK Acid House is not a natural progression
I had to laugh at the idea of Technotronic being a big influence, that just makes me think of Philomena Cunk.
However, (off the top of my head) LFO, Orbital and Luke Slater have all listed Belgian EBM acts like Front 242 as inspiration.
Front 242 list Kraftwerk as an inflence so there is a lineage.
Not big enough for James Last to re-interpret.
There’s AI slop of that out there no doubt.
Urk.
It seems it actually happened:
James Last orchestra: "James Last à lo Kraftwerk", studio ´84.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DLBukf68tCo
Hainbach's video on the collection: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxYGxpXBEos&t=2024s>
I somehow read this as Florian Pilz collection and wondered why all the comments were about Kraftwerk. Either way, an interesting set.
It belongs in a museum. OTOH, I wish they were used to make some more music.
This collection is, indeed, ticking all the boxes.
initially thought this is so sad.
but, whoever the collectors might be, they will surely value and preserve his epic equipment a lot more than whoever is selling.
Now we see why Kraftwerk had techno a decade before everybody else. It took a lot of tech to make techno before synths became routine musical instruments.
And now we can do all this with an entry-level ipad. Life is good !
Can, but don’t.
Yes, many of us do. Without the success, sure, but still.