Good, such records shouldn't be exempt. So what if they were gathered by a third party, it was a service carried out under request of the local government/law enforcement, and paid for by public money.
These camera's are on all 3 egress routes from our home. I asked our local sheriff's department if they could use these to enforce state-wide curfews and after hemming and hawing they admitted "if it was a crime than in theory, yes".
There are quite a few private Flock camera installations (HOA, neighborhood, business) in my locale. I assume those are exempt from FOIA requests but wonder if law enforcement can access that data.
Those private installations are almost certainly not subject to FOIA (they wouldn't be in Illinois, hard to see how they would be in any state). Without a court order, none of them should be exposed to law enforcement, though there might be opt-out features that have that effect.
It comes down to the individual agreements that those private-contract cameras have with Flock, which unfortunately means it might be a case by case basis to understand if any one has conditions that allow sharing with law enforcement. IT was recently discovered that local police departments that had Flock contracts that limited the police department's access did not restrict general access, so Flock could still use it how they wanted and let federal agencies (ICE) use it: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachus...
This is a reasonably common (sadly) methodology that many agencies utilize.
"We are not legally permitted to blanket surveil/ALPR entire neighborhoods/towns, etc. ...
... and we can't pay a private company to do this for us ...
... but nothing prevents us from paying a private company who is doing it already, to give us that data."
The line between the last two is blurry but also utilized - you can't put out an RFP for a company to capture such data that you're not permitted to, but if that company is doing it because it sees a/your market for it, then it's a free-for-all.
And, I assume, you can pay them to put up a "this is how fast you are going, slow down" sign. And they can add a camera to it, that has nothing to do with you paying them to put it up in the first place... and then sell them access to data from the camera.
Anyone have or know how to dig up the opinion? It looks like (but I'm not sure that) this is Skagit County Superior Court case number 252007173, but that doesn't seem to get me very far.
Gonna need to contact the county clerk. Using https://www.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.contentDisplay&l... and entering superior court and the county then the case number returns "Status: Archived No Docket Info" for both plaintiffs and the defendant.
Once my car drove by a Google street view vehicle. I thought it was cool. If a Google street view vehicle (or, nowadays, Amazon truck) drove circles around my neighborhood collecting wearabouts of all cars I'd find that concerning.
The way these camera systems are set up is tantamount to an ankle monitor. Who wants to live like that?
Good, such records shouldn't be exempt. So what if they were gathered by a third party, it was a service carried out under request of the local government/law enforcement, and paid for by public money.
These camera's are on all 3 egress routes from our home. I asked our local sheriff's department if they could use these to enforce state-wide curfews and after hemming and hawing they admitted "if it was a crime than in theory, yes".
There are quite a few private Flock camera installations (HOA, neighborhood, business) in my locale. I assume those are exempt from FOIA requests but wonder if law enforcement can access that data.
Those private installations are almost certainly not subject to FOIA (they wouldn't be in Illinois, hard to see how they would be in any state). Without a court order, none of them should be exposed to law enforcement, though there might be opt-out features that have that effect.
I was wondering if Flock shares the private-contract camera data with law enforcement.
It comes down to the individual agreements that those private-contract cameras have with Flock, which unfortunately means it might be a case by case basis to understand if any one has conditions that allow sharing with law enforcement. IT was recently discovered that local police departments that had Flock contracts that limited the police department's access did not restrict general access, so Flock could still use it how they wanted and let federal agencies (ICE) use it: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-massachus...
Full title too long for HN: Court denies request that it find Flock Safety camera data is exempt from Public Records Act
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/08/us/melodee-buzzard-missing-se...
How was all of this data gathered without being a violation?
This is a reasonably common (sadly) methodology that many agencies utilize.
"We are not legally permitted to blanket surveil/ALPR entire neighborhoods/towns, etc. ...
... and we can't pay a private company to do this for us ...
... but nothing prevents us from paying a private company who is doing it already, to give us that data."
The line between the last two is blurry but also utilized - you can't put out an RFP for a company to capture such data that you're not permitted to, but if that company is doing it because it sees a/your market for it, then it's a free-for-all.
And, I assume, you can pay them to put up a "this is how fast you are going, slow down" sign. And they can add a camera to it, that has nothing to do with you paying them to put it up in the first place... and then sell them access to data from the camera.
Anyone have or know how to dig up the opinion? It looks like (but I'm not sure that) this is Skagit County Superior Court case number 252007173, but that doesn't seem to get me very far.
Gonna need to contact the county clerk. Using https://www.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.contentDisplay&l... and entering superior court and the county then the case number returns "Status: Archived No Docket Info" for both plaintiffs and the defendant.
If you're out driving on public roads do you really have any expectation of privacy? Anybody can take a picture of your car...
Another non-paywalled article on the case: https://www.king5.com/article/news/investigations/investigat...
Courts have found that scale and intent matter.
An offhand picture by a private individual is OK, but a large scale organized hoovering of personally identifying information is not OK.
The finding is also the denial of an exemption appeal which has a much lower legal threshold to clear.
Sources?
The basis for the current litigation Schmidt v. City of Norfolk[0] is the 2018 Supreme Court decision Carpenter v. United States.[1]
The ruling in Carpenter is essentially that you can't have prolonged surveillance without a warrant.
[1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-402_h315.pdf
[0] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69288422/schmidt-v-city...
> Anybody can take a picture of your car
But they don't.
Once my car drove by a Google street view vehicle. I thought it was cool. If a Google street view vehicle (or, nowadays, Amazon truck) drove circles around my neighborhood collecting wearabouts of all cars I'd find that concerning.
The way these camera systems are set up is tantamount to an ankle monitor. Who wants to live like that?
No paywall article.
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/judge-denies-request-to-exemp...
Thanks, that is better.
Also:
Redmond temporarily suspends use of Flock cameras - https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/redmond-police-depa...
with a better headline: "Judge denies request to exempt Flock footage from Public Records Act"
This is just step 1 of many. The lawyers at Fluck will appeal. I know what I typed.