Is this sort of thing widely known ahead of time before purchase, ie signing some T&C’s?
My car is >10 years old, which feels like a lifetime right now, given the rapid pace of change in car tech (notice I didn’t say “progress”). It doesn’t even have a backup camera. I’ve done all sorts of basic maintenance on it by myself. In some ways I’m terrified of buying a newer car today because it seems like I won’t be able to do that and I’d have to deal with an always on modem and other owner-hostile features (note that I didn’t say “user”).
I want to drive a car, not rent a computer on wheels. It pains me when I see people write things like “CarPlay didn’t work, this vehicle is trash” like they forgot what the thing was supposed to do for them in the first place.
Are there manufacturers that don’t widely do this?
This is becoming a new thing because of the proliferation of “cheap” J2354 passthrough tools to work with diagnostic interfaces across manufacturers.
The same interface that’s used for diagnostics is the same one that’s used to program keys into the immobilizers, so there’s a delicate balance of controlling diagnostic access that lets you near the immo. “All keys lost” procedures are fun and easy to steal a car with across many many brands. (See also: the early days of people breaking the little window in the corner of BMW doors, popping them open, plugging a little machine in, and running off with a car and new keys in their hands.)
And in many cases it’s just the OEM software enforcing the code challenge, not the vehicle. Some of the third party Android-based scan tools can be rolled back to different software that just doesn’t have those code checks. And other vendors have just cracked the direct CAN commands to program new keys in regardless of any of these ‘legit’ protections. (That’s where you get the funny things like the fake JBL speaker that hooks into the headlights on the 4runners!)
I have a ~$200 VCX SE dongle that acts as a J2354 for any manufacturer and use it with my ~2018 Ford (with ‘offline’ IDS), but if I had a slightly newer vehicle I would have been doomed to have to use Ford’s online-first FDRS diagnostics suite regardless of what dongle I buy.
… Man, it’s kinda funny that the criminals continue to have it easier than I do.
It's a standard electric caliper with a 2-pin connector. Feed it 12v with jumpers or wind it up by hand with the stupid cube tool (possible on most designs)
The software might bitch at you that it's not in the position the software left it when it shut off or it'll do some calibration routine and find that the brake pad "grew" and complain about that but you can almost certainly clear that up much more easily/cheaply than buying the software that makes the caliper screw itself backwards for new pads.
Furthermore, look at that price point. They clearly don't care about screwing the DIYer because that price point is a non-starter. They care about screwing the chain tire and lube type place for which that stuff isn't an option because "troubleshoot it" doesn't scale to a "we hire teenagers off the street" type business.
Yeah, it sucks, but this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stupid crap OEMs do.
If it’s more profitable to screw over the customers and someone gets away with it then everyone has to do the same to stay profitable.
A really cool little ISP I knew was chill about all things except they required you to rent their equipment. Over time you’d end up paying for that router hundreds of times. I cornered the CEO and asked him about it “our competitors do it so we have to do it to remain competitive” he realized it was shitty, didn’t want to be shitty. But felt he had to.
This is why we cannot allow intolerable behavior by corporations. If we allow it once we allow it forever and build a future that is more dystopian hellscape for every right and freedom we give up. In this case the right to repair which is an inalienable right. Because if you can’t repair it and you depend on it, you don’t own it, it owns you.
Is this sort of thing widely known ahead of time before purchase, ie signing some T&C’s?
My car is >10 years old, which feels like a lifetime right now, given the rapid pace of change in car tech (notice I didn’t say “progress”). It doesn’t even have a backup camera. I’ve done all sorts of basic maintenance on it by myself. In some ways I’m terrified of buying a newer car today because it seems like I won’t be able to do that and I’d have to deal with an always on modem and other owner-hostile features (note that I didn’t say “user”).
I want to drive a car, not rent a computer on wheels. It pains me when I see people write things like “CarPlay didn’t work, this vehicle is trash” like they forgot what the thing was supposed to do for them in the first place.
Are there manufacturers that don’t widely do this?
CarPlay is useful for safe navigation.
The real problem is supposed safety features that aren’t, like lane keep assist or automatic braking. Both are unpredictable in varied environments.
This is becoming a new thing because of the proliferation of “cheap” J2354 passthrough tools to work with diagnostic interfaces across manufacturers.
The same interface that’s used for diagnostics is the same one that’s used to program keys into the immobilizers, so there’s a delicate balance of controlling diagnostic access that lets you near the immo. “All keys lost” procedures are fun and easy to steal a car with across many many brands. (See also: the early days of people breaking the little window in the corner of BMW doors, popping them open, plugging a little machine in, and running off with a car and new keys in their hands.)
And in many cases it’s just the OEM software enforcing the code challenge, not the vehicle. Some of the third party Android-based scan tools can be rolled back to different software that just doesn’t have those code checks. And other vendors have just cracked the direct CAN commands to program new keys in regardless of any of these ‘legit’ protections. (That’s where you get the funny things like the fake JBL speaker that hooks into the headlights on the 4runners!)
I have a ~$200 VCX SE dongle that acts as a J2354 for any manufacturer and use it with my ~2018 Ford (with ‘offline’ IDS), but if I had a slightly newer vehicle I would have been doomed to have to use Ford’s online-first FDRS diagnostics suite regardless of what dongle I buy.
… Man, it’s kinda funny that the criminals continue to have it easier than I do.
It's a standard electric caliper with a 2-pin connector. Feed it 12v with jumpers or wind it up by hand with the stupid cube tool (possible on most designs)
The software might bitch at you that it's not in the position the software left it when it shut off or it'll do some calibration routine and find that the brake pad "grew" and complain about that but you can almost certainly clear that up much more easily/cheaply than buying the software that makes the caliper screw itself backwards for new pads.
Furthermore, look at that price point. They clearly don't care about screwing the DIYer because that price point is a non-starter. They care about screwing the chain tire and lube type place for which that stuff isn't an option because "troubleshoot it" doesn't scale to a "we hire teenagers off the street" type business.
Yeah, it sucks, but this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stupid crap OEMs do.
It sounds like they're actively making it harder and more expensive to maintain the vehicle, which seems like an odd business decision.
When we buy things do we own them or do we rent them?
Right to repair should be a fundamental part of the contract we have with the corporate entities who consider themselves our owners.
It's clear that market forces won't give this to us.
> It's clear that market forces won't give this to us.
That's exactly why corporations recommend "if you don't like it, don't buy it". Because they know it doesn't work.
If it’s more profitable to screw over the customers and someone gets away with it then everyone has to do the same to stay profitable.
A really cool little ISP I knew was chill about all things except they required you to rent their equipment. Over time you’d end up paying for that router hundreds of times. I cornered the CEO and asked him about it “our competitors do it so we have to do it to remain competitive” he realized it was shitty, didn’t want to be shitty. But felt he had to.
This is why we cannot allow intolerable behavior by corporations. If we allow it once we allow it forever and build a future that is more dystopian hellscape for every right and freedom we give up. In this case the right to repair which is an inalienable right. Because if you can’t repair it and you depend on it, you don’t own it, it owns you.