> The basalt fibers typically have a filament diameter of between 10 and 20 μm which is far enough above the respiratory limit of 5 μm to make basalt fiber a suitable replacement for asbestos.
The source mentioned is a basalt fiber brand website, so not sure if that's enough for confidence.
The problem with asbestos is that, due to its structure, it keeps breaking in the longitudinal direction, making thinner and thinner until it is the size of chromosomes. Physical interference with DNA is how it causes cancer.
My understanding is that basalt fibers seem to be glassy, not crystalline, so the breaking does not happen.
My bartender told me the other night that as long as I have 2 cups of black coffee and some red meat before drinking, it will coat my liver and prevent cirrhosis. I'm wondering if I should have him check out the mole on my arm, just to put my mind at ease. He would probably volunteer to be an experimental subject to prove this glass theory.
> First the basalt is melted at a temperature of 1,400 °C (2550 °F). The molten rock is then extruded through small nozzles for the production of filaments of basalt fibers.
One could probably add some other minerals to lower the melting temperature. Like is done for regular glass. I am not a chemist but I would assume most likely still way too high for plastic-like temperatures.
As a ceramicist it'd be difficult to 3d print with because the kinds of temperatures you can reach even with heavily fluxed silica is still extremely high. I fire bisque at cone 04 which is approximately 1060C / 1940F and that's considered low fire, only extremely heavily fluxed glazes (usually pure frit or equivalent) melt at that level.
Putting 3d printing concepts on the table, though, you could definitely see something like a sintered bed printer using a laser to print it, but then you wouldn't get anything close to the standard FDM style print.
I also assume directional solidification is really important for basalt, like for glass fibers and others. That's hard to achieve for bulk objects but easy for fibers.
Basalt is stronger than glass fibers (made from silica / quartz / sand), but not as strong as carbon fiber. Also, its more expensive than glass, but less expensive than carbon. Generally considered eco friendly.
Interestingly where carbon fiber's failure mode is instant, failing catastrophically (like say chalk), basalt will be more gradual (like say wood), in some use cases that's an advantage.
Overall though its still not mass produced, uncertain if it will ever reach scale.
If interested in fibers and composites, the YouTube channel Easy Composites is really interesting / educational. For example you can use flax fiber.
It also has one very interesting property that carbon fiber doesn't: it's not conductive. This means, for example, that you can put it in an MRI machine and get signal back. You can't do that with carbon fiber, which shields the return RF signals and gives you a dark image, but doesn't damage anything. Basalt weave composites are basically completely transparent on an MRI.
(For the same reasons, it also can be microwaved successfully. Carbon fiber can not be microwaved. Do not microwave real carbon fiber or carbon fiber composites.)
Price performance. If the failure mode is slow, then my sport (rowing) could love this for cheaper boat construction which is stronger than fibreglass but cheaper than carbon fibre. I imagine surfboards and kayaks could work too.
See uses here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt_fiber
I am no material scientist, so cannot comment on actual facts why it might be better in specific cases than Kevlar, Dyneema or Carbon. But from experience there's a lot I don't know and especially in engineering there's a lot to consider when putting materials under stressful conditions that might put this in in a specific spot superior to those mentioned above.
In addution to what sibling posts say, basalt is certainly abundant. Per Wikipedia, 90% if volcanic rock on earth is basalt. We're not going to run out of it.
I can imagine (I have no clue about this, I just watch manufacturing videos) that this is easier to mass produce. A less refined version of this is used to make Rockwool, an insulation material similar to fiber glass. Melt the stuff, extrude it, ????, profit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6FWPTZjwLo
Which is basically HDPE (plastic) foil with limestone filler. And a whole website full of marketing that somehow never mentions that 20% of the material is non-renewable (made from petroleum products) and not biodegradable.
Yes, they say its HDPE, but then conveniently in all their talk about sustainability, they somehow forget to talk about where HDPE actually comes from. Just that it being composed of carbon and hydrogen somehow makes it "clean". Which, I guess, is something you could also say about things like gasoline. Plastic shopping bags are also made of polyethylene. So are they sustainable as well?
Sure it is. But it's also nowhere near cost competitive and so no one does. They also don't even claim they're using anything else than "normal" HDPE made from ethylene distilled from crude oil.
They don't use "normal" HDPE, they use recycled HDPE which means they don't know what's inside their feedstock and it definitively means you can't get rid of the paper by burning it, because you're also burning whatever mystery chemicals remain inside.
The premise is nice, but downsides noted in another comment, usability is also a problem.
It's much heavier than a normal notebook, and the surface is basically an extremely fine grit sandpaper. It works great with pencils and ballpoints, but wetter pens (gel, rollerball) do not dry as quick. Also, forget fountain pens. You'll be eating away your nib as I write on that paper.
I have a couple of these notebooks, but they sit unused for now.
In-situ produced basalt fiber reinforced butyl rubber is likely to be one of the major building materials on Mars or the asteroids if humans ever get there.
I can understand basalt, as that is abundant on Mars. But butyl rubber, from where do you get that? Synthetize from CO2 in the atmosphere might work on Mars but on an Asteroid? But if you go through the route of synthetizing from CO2, why butyl rubber and not some other hydrocarbon?
rock wool, and other names are used for basalt fibre insulation, which is quite brittle, and turns to dust with very little manipulation must be produced useing a different chemistry and process, but the same bulk feed stock, which I believe is just a certain type of foundry slag that is dumped in the millions of tons per anum range, while still molten, which is where the incentive comes from to utilise it then and there
One use that fascinates me is with foamed concrete (literally mixing concrete with a foaming agent) can be used to create cheap lightweight, insulating blocks, slabs or pours. While it shouldn’t be considered “structural” (low compressive strength), it can be quite durable and withstand and dissipate very energetic impacts when blended with chopped fibers (like basalt). The exact use will effect the ultimate blend and resulting density.
Not a typical material for sure, but I do see it come up in some countries when someone is having to DIY a lasting shelter. For a lot of situations it’s quite a sensible choice, and much healthier than spray foams. Depending on how open/closed the cells end up and freeze thaw cycles, protection from water saturation may be needed.
This combination of materials is also sold as prefabricated bullet stops for training, meant for retaining lead in an alkaline environment: https://www.terrancorp.com/sacon
So, I can sew a battle west made of rock?!
Finally \../
Basalt Fibre (bonded with recycled PET) is also being used in yacht construction inplace of glass fibre
https://www.windelo-catamaran.com/en/recycled-and-biosourced...
This makes me think about Vinylon[1] and this article from Reuters[2]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinylon [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/northkor...
Vinalon is an organic polymer, like many other synthetic fibers we wear, but derived from coal instead of oil because North Korea has no oil.
The basalt fiber OP describes is not organic at all. It sounds more like asbestos actually.
Yeah, but the vibes are the same as basalt textiles
Is this any safer than asbestos if it gets broken up?
Wikipedia says yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt_fiber
> The basalt fibers typically have a filament diameter of between 10 and 20 μm which is far enough above the respiratory limit of 5 μm to make basalt fiber a suitable replacement for asbestos.
The source mentioned is a basalt fiber brand website, so not sure if that's enough for confidence.
but still it breaks and gets airborne...
The problem with asbestos is that, due to its structure, it keeps breaking in the longitudinal direction, making thinner and thinner until it is the size of chromosomes. Physical interference with DNA is how it causes cancer.
My understanding is that basalt fibers seem to be glassy, not crystalline, so the breaking does not happen.
My bartender told me the other night that as long as I have 2 cups of black coffee and some red meat before drinking, it will coat my liver and prevent cirrhosis. I'm wondering if I should have him check out the mole on my arm, just to put my mind at ease. He would probably volunteer to be an experimental subject to prove this glass theory.
If I become a king, my tablecloth will be basalt instead of asbestos and the flames from acetylene for brightest blue color.
I sure hope so, as it's one of the go-to insulation materials in NL at the moment next to glass fiber wool.
All over the world really, AFAIU. And why not, it's non-flammable, rot-resistant, affordable and made from abundant raw materials.
And yes, you should probably use gloves and a mask when working with it, but it's not carcinogenic like asbestos.
> First the basalt is melted at a temperature of 1,400 °C (2550 °F). The molten rock is then extruded through small nozzles for the production of filaments of basalt fibers.
As a 3D-printer user, I flinched.
One could probably add some other minerals to lower the melting temperature. Like is done for regular glass. I am not a chemist but I would assume most likely still way too high for plastic-like temperatures.
As a ceramicist it'd be difficult to 3d print with because the kinds of temperatures you can reach even with heavily fluxed silica is still extremely high. I fire bisque at cone 04 which is approximately 1060C / 1940F and that's considered low fire, only extremely heavily fluxed glazes (usually pure frit or equivalent) melt at that level.
Putting 3d printing concepts on the table, though, you could definitely see something like a sintered bed printer using a laser to print it, but then you wouldn't get anything close to the standard FDM style print.
I also assume directional solidification is really important for basalt, like for glass fibers and others. That's hard to achieve for bulk objects but easy for fibers.
couldn't imagine what the spaghetti looks like
Hot, bright, and hot
Next sewing project: rock pants.
Maybe new dress code for rock concerts
Isn't this basically fiberglass?
Basalt is stronger than glass fibers (made from silica / quartz / sand), but not as strong as carbon fiber. Also, its more expensive than glass, but less expensive than carbon. Generally considered eco friendly.
Interestingly where carbon fiber's failure mode is instant, failing catastrophically (like say chalk), basalt will be more gradual (like say wood), in some use cases that's an advantage.
Overall though its still not mass produced, uncertain if it will ever reach scale.
If interested in fibers and composites, the YouTube channel Easy Composites is really interesting / educational. For example you can use flax fiber.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD98L9XlCTU
It's a very good alternative to carbon fiber.
It also has one very interesting property that carbon fiber doesn't: it's not conductive. This means, for example, that you can put it in an MRI machine and get signal back. You can't do that with carbon fiber, which shields the return RF signals and gives you a dark image, but doesn't damage anything. Basalt weave composites are basically completely transparent on an MRI.
(For the same reasons, it also can be microwaved successfully. Carbon fiber can not be microwaved. Do not microwave real carbon fiber or carbon fiber composites.)
It looks visually similar to woven Kevlar, which is a bit stronger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar
Quite. I don't see why we need this in a world that already has Kevlar, Dyneema and Carbon.
Price performance. If the failure mode is slow, then my sport (rowing) could love this for cheaper boat construction which is stronger than fibreglass but cheaper than carbon fibre. I imagine surfboards and kayaks could work too.
Being flexible and non conducting is useful.
See uses here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt_fiber I am no material scientist, so cannot comment on actual facts why it might be better in specific cases than Kevlar, Dyneema or Carbon. But from experience there's a lot I don't know and especially in engineering there's a lot to consider when putting materials under stressful conditions that might put this in in a specific spot superior to those mentioned above.
In addution to what sibling posts say, basalt is certainly abundant. Per Wikipedia, 90% if volcanic rock on earth is basalt. We're not going to run out of it.
I can imagine (I have no clue about this, I just watch manufacturing videos) that this is easier to mass produce. A less refined version of this is used to make Rockwool, an insulation material similar to fiber glass. Melt the stuff, extrude it, ????, profit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6FWPTZjwLo
It seems to be more heat resistant?
Related, there's also stone paper: https://stone-paper.nl/en/
Which is basically HDPE (plastic) foil with limestone filler. And a whole website full of marketing that somehow never mentions that 20% of the material is non-renewable (made from petroleum products) and not biodegradable.
We know how to turn air into HDPE. It's just energetically stupid as long as we feed the electricity grid with fossil (hydro) carbon.
It does mention it pretty clearly in the "what is stone paper" page: https://stone-paper.nl/en/wat-is-stone-paper/
Yes, they say its HDPE, but then conveniently in all their talk about sustainability, they somehow forget to talk about where HDPE actually comes from. Just that it being composed of carbon and hydrogen somehow makes it "clean". Which, I guess, is something you could also say about things like gasoline. Plastic shopping bags are also made of polyethylene. So are they sustainable as well?
It's perfectly possible to make polythene from renewable feedstock.
Sure it is. But it's also nowhere near cost competitive and so no one does. They also don't even claim they're using anything else than "normal" HDPE made from ethylene distilled from crude oil.
They don't use "normal" HDPE, they use recycled HDPE which means they don't know what's inside their feedstock and it definitively means you can't get rid of the paper by burning it, because you're also burning whatever mystery chemicals remain inside.
It says what it is in terms like:
> mixed with 20% HDPE, a clean plastic composed of carbon and hydrogen
We've come around full circle, I suppose
The premise is nice, but downsides noted in another comment, usability is also a problem.
It's much heavier than a normal notebook, and the surface is basically an extremely fine grit sandpaper. It works great with pencils and ballpoints, but wetter pens (gel, rollerball) do not dry as quick. Also, forget fountain pens. You'll be eating away your nib as I write on that paper.
I have a couple of these notebooks, but they sit unused for now.
Scissors has entered the chat
In-situ produced basalt fiber reinforced butyl rubber is likely to be one of the major building materials on Mars or the asteroids if humans ever get there.
I can understand basalt, as that is abundant on Mars. But butyl rubber, from where do you get that? Synthetize from CO2 in the atmosphere might work on Mars but on an Asteroid? But if you go through the route of synthetizing from CO2, why butyl rubber and not some other hydrocarbon?
Isn’t Rockwool the unwoven version of this?
Had to google it to be sure, but yes, rockwool / mineral wool the insulation material is also made of basalt.
I think I have seen it being used in Snowboards
rock wool, and other names are used for basalt fibre insulation, which is quite brittle, and turns to dust with very little manipulation must be produced useing a different chemistry and process, but the same bulk feed stock, which I believe is just a certain type of foundry slag that is dumped in the millions of tons per anum range, while still molten, which is where the incentive comes from to utilise it then and there
What could regular people do with it?
Oven gloves? Anti-stab vests? Gloves for working with strong chemicals?
A reinforcing fiber to mix with concrete is one.
One use that fascinates me is with foamed concrete (literally mixing concrete with a foaming agent) can be used to create cheap lightweight, insulating blocks, slabs or pours. While it shouldn’t be considered “structural” (low compressive strength), it can be quite durable and withstand and dissipate very energetic impacts when blended with chopped fibers (like basalt). The exact use will effect the ultimate blend and resulting density.
Not a typical material for sure, but I do see it come up in some countries when someone is having to DIY a lasting shelter. For a lot of situations it’s quite a sensible choice, and much healthier than spray foams. Depending on how open/closed the cells end up and freeze thaw cycles, protection from water saturation may be needed.
This combination of materials is also sold as prefabricated bullet stops for training, meant for retaining lead in an alkaline environment: https://www.terrancorp.com/sacon
It will be used for shopping bags.
Bullet-proof living room curtains.