It didn't stop people from buying the most expensive cards and CPUs when the world was ending in COVID-19 days. Average Joe doesn't know anything about CPUs. This is a gaming community that squeezes the most out of each buck. I wouldn't use CPU market for economic prediction.
Average Joe does not know anything about CPUs, but when they are out to buy a new computer they can see the prices of a new DDR5 computer vs an older or used DDR4 one.
Do they even know what DDR5 or DDR4 are? Best Buy still sells 10-year-old laptops, and people buy them. CPU power means nothing to the average user. They do not know anything about RAM or CPU. Maybe here and there, a little disk space knowledge, just because they are familiar with the concept of disk space because of their phones.
Upgraded my 2400G to a 5700G with new 64GB RAM a while back, which is really the end of the road for my system. I got a solid 3x performance increase on multi-threaded apps. Also have enough RAM to play with some this AI stuff - yes even on an AMD APU. Next purchase will likely be Zen 7.
5900X here with mobo from 2019. Will upgrade my GPU or get a mac if I'm able to setup my wacom pen the way I want. Either way I will keep the current machine
I'll let others judge for themselves, personally I'd be tempted to get an x16 GPU since the 5800X3D is actually very near top of the line and the GPU should match the CPU imho but in general even the worst case of x8 GPU on a PCIE 3.0 motherboard doesn't seem to be the end of the world
The 5800X3D is an almost four year old CPU (2022), which was the last major product on its platform (first product in 2016, last new chipset launched in 2020). The successor platform (AM5) was released just months later and is now about 2/3rds or so through its lifecycle.
Normally an old, used CPU for a dead 10yo platform will go for a small fraction the MSRP. Not a multiple. Silicon economy seems in a good shape.
> Normally an old, used CPU for a dead platform will go for a small fraction the MSRP.
True in general- used CPUs from discontinued platforms sell for a small fraction of the original MSRP.
Buuuut, the final flagship part on nearly every platform is an exception to this rule. They are generally sought after as the definitive 'End Game Upgrade' because they provide users with the simplest, most cost-effective performance boost—a single component swap—bypassing the need for a costly migration to a successor platform (which requires new RAM and a new motherboard).
It tends to happen every generation swap, 5800X3D is just the latest.
5800X3D have been high for a long time now. Ever since they were discontinued the price has only inflated. Same as the 5700X3D. AM5 was a bit of a slow start for a lot of people who didn't a big bump in jumping to the new platform. So while their high price isn't driven by RAM prices, I'm sure it's getting some extra inflation from it.
oh ffs, I was just thinking about upgrading my current PC with a new GPU and CPU and just keeping the same 64gb of AM4 DDR4 I already have. But now even the prices for the CPUs are skyrocketting? Eff everything about this and curse Sam Altman.
I think its the memory price checked and 32gb of ddr4 is a 170 eur while same size kit in ddr5 is over 400 now. If you want to build a cheap 1080p 1440p gaming desktop it all adds up.
The article claims "Second-hand prices for the 5800X3D average around $500-$600 on eBay. Some of the highest-selling units sold at nearly $800, showing how desperate some buyers are to buy AMD's best gaming chip that still uses DDR4 memory"
This is absurd. "Average quoted" on ebay does not mean anything, neither dors their claim of "highest selling" which is "highest listed". Nobody is buying at these prices.
People buy the lowest priced (incl. Shipping) with modifiers for professional>private, seller review rating, location and picture/description quality.
The people that predicted this face a dilemma. They were ridiculed when their forecast was against popular opinion and now they are ostracized because they were right. I've seen this happen to many researchers in AI and it's demoralizing.
If your crystal ball was that reliable you could have easily doubled your wealthy by playing the market. In which case you would have been boasting about it. Not just complaining.
Based on the benchmarks that I've seen, 5800X3D is still a good CPU for games, when paired with a very expensive GPU, otherwise a 5600X is cheaper and acts less than a heater over the winter. Someone with the money for a nVidia 5800 GPU will pair it with a 9800X3D, for most games even 16 GB of RAM will work and would be cheap enough, while for applications one does not need X3D, so what exactly is the point of 5800X3D scalping?
5800x3d / 5700x3d are MUCH MUCH MUCH faster than non-x3d in some games that are CPU bound (for some even 2x / 3x faster than non-x3d) so even with a "slower" GPU it can still be a large upgrade
Does your motherboard have auto-oc enabled? Have you checked what voltage it's using? Have you tried setting a negative voltage offset and stability testing? Some motherboards will apply 1.3v+ when 1.2v is plenty.
The 5700X has the same 8 cores as a 5800X3D but with a slightly higher maximum clock speed (the X3D CPUs tend to have lower maximum voltages because the extra cache die doesn't tolerate voltages as high as the CPU cores do). The only reason the 5700X is running cooler for you is because it comes with a 65W "TDP" setting out of the box rather than the 105W "TDP" setting used by the 5800X3D. If you configure a 5800X3D to operate at the same power limit, it'll give you generally better performance than a 5700X.
In general, buying a power-limited desktop CPU has never been a good strategy to get better efficiency. You can always configure the full-power chip to only use that extra headroom for short bursts, and to throttle down to what you consider acceptable for sustained workloads.
> so what exactly is the point of 5800X3D scalping
in the past, growth in PC gaming came naturally with the growth in the adoption of computers around the world.
at saturation of "new to computers" audiences, growth in PC gaming comes from convincing the core gaming demographic, newly-turned 13 year old boys, to agitate for PCs instead of XYZ.
so a big part of it is the retail-marketing experience - the aesthetics of buying - and scalping / sense of urgency plays extremely well with the buyer who actually chooses PC over a nintendo switch, as opposed to a kid who will never make the more expensive choice ever.
this is really a story about saturation than it is about hardware or shortages for AI usage or whatever.
Consoles don’t pay for online subscriptions with f2p games anymore, which is the overwhelming lions share of online play today.
Consoles also get to flip games you’re done with. I’m positive about 3 of my friends spend much less than I do on gaming these days because of all the games they buy, play once, then flip again on FB market place
And then you get to the rising entry level cost of PC gaming. If you want something better than a Steam deck you’re looking at 1K USD to start with an Intel dGPU
But I guess if you’re fine with a Steam deck it’s a bit cheaper than consoles to start
The best claim that PC gaming has today is that it has a much larger library with indies that don’t release on console
It may seem cute but economies only do this when they are very stressed.
> when they are very stressed
DDR5 has gone up so much it just isn't worth it. 4-5x the price. Is this just "stress"?
It didn't stop people from buying the most expensive cards and CPUs when the world was ending in COVID-19 days. Average Joe doesn't know anything about CPUs. This is a gaming community that squeezes the most out of each buck. I wouldn't use CPU market for economic prediction.
Average Joe does not know anything about CPUs, but when they are out to buy a new computer they can see the prices of a new DDR5 computer vs an older or used DDR4 one.
Do they even know what DDR5 or DDR4 are? Best Buy still sells 10-year-old laptops, and people buy them. CPU power means nothing to the average user. They do not know anything about RAM or CPU. Maybe here and there, a little disk space knowledge, just because they are familiar with the concept of disk space because of their phones.
Upgraded my 2400G to a 5700G with new 64GB RAM a while back, which is really the end of the road for my system. I got a solid 3x performance increase on multi-threaded apps. Also have enough RAM to play with some this AI stuff - yes even on an AMD APU. Next purchase will likely be Zen 7.
Rocking my 5800x from 2022, 32gb ram.
5900X here with mobo from 2019. Will upgrade my GPU or get a mac if I'm able to setup my wacom pen the way I want. Either way I will keep the current machine
I have my 5800X in my AM4 motherboard from 2017. My current system as been beyond any doubts the best bang for my bucks of any computer I have built.
Hell yeah, buddy.
3800x here, so disappointing little progress since then
Be careful with these older boards. Some might be PCIe 3.0 making your GPU and NVMe dog slow.
PCIe 3.0 x16 is enough for up to a ~5080, you only lose single digit percent fps.
Definetly not dog slow as long as your gpu is x16.
Doesn't matter for gaming at least.
NVIDIA models 4060/5050/5060 have only 8 PCIe lanes. Combine that with PCIe 3.0 and it becomes a problem.
X8 3.0 vs x8 4.0 and x8 5.0 benchmark comparisons.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5060-t...
I'll let others judge for themselves, personally I'd be tempted to get an x16 GPU since the 5800X3D is actually very near top of the line and the GPU should match the CPU imho but in general even the worst case of x8 GPU on a PCIE 3.0 motherboard doesn't seem to be the end of the world
is PCIe 4 fine?
Even like 2016 vintage boards were PCIe 4.0 so I don’t think this is a huge issue?
Considering the final PCIe 4.0 spec was released in June 2017 that seems improbable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express
AMD didn't even support PCIe 4.0 until 2019 with Zen 2, Intel in 2020 with tiger lake.
The article mentions AM4 boards and many of those are PCIe 3.0.
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/ilz8v6/which_am4_...
Not a problem for MWLL - it's still the Crysis engine anyway.
But seriously, claiming "dog slow" is certainly an overstatement. You lose some of the top performance, not below - and it's still ~4/16GB/s
Mechwarrior Living Legends my belowed.
The 5800X3D is an almost four year old CPU (2022), which was the last major product on its platform (first product in 2016, last new chipset launched in 2020). The successor platform (AM5) was released just months later and is now about 2/3rds or so through its lifecycle.
Normally an old, used CPU for a dead 10yo platform will go for a small fraction the MSRP. Not a multiple. Silicon economy seems in a good shape.
> Normally an old, used CPU for a dead platform will go for a small fraction the MSRP.
True in general- used CPUs from discontinued platforms sell for a small fraction of the original MSRP.
Buuuut, the final flagship part on nearly every platform is an exception to this rule. They are generally sought after as the definitive 'End Game Upgrade' because they provide users with the simplest, most cost-effective performance boost—a single component swap—bypassing the need for a costly migration to a successor platform (which requires new RAM and a new motherboard).
It tends to happen every generation swap, 5800X3D is just the latest.
Despite it's age the 5800X3D is still one of the best CPUs you can get for gaming.
5800X3D have been high for a long time now. Ever since they were discontinued the price has only inflated. Same as the 5700X3D. AM5 was a bit of a slow start for a lot of people who didn't a big bump in jumping to the new platform. So while their high price isn't driven by RAM prices, I'm sure it's getting some extra inflation from it.
oh ffs, I was just thinking about upgrading my current PC with a new GPU and CPU and just keeping the same 64gb of AM4 DDR4 I already have. But now even the prices for the CPUs are skyrocketting? Eff everything about this and curse Sam Altman.
BS. A used (not available new) 5800X3D is 350€, while a new 9800X3D is around 460€.
I think its the memory price checked and 32gb of ddr4 is a 170 eur while same size kit in ddr5 is over 400 now. If you want to build a cheap 1080p 1440p gaming desktop it all adds up.
The article claims "Second-hand prices for the 5800X3D average around $500-$600 on eBay. Some of the highest-selling units sold at nearly $800, showing how desperate some buyers are to buy AMD's best gaming chip that still uses DDR4 memory"
This is absurd. "Average quoted" on ebay does not mean anything, neither dors their claim of "highest selling" which is "highest listed". Nobody is buying at these prices.
People buy the lowest priced (incl. Shipping) with modifiers for professional>private, seller review rating, location and picture/description quality.
eBay Seller Research shows that the average sold price for a 5800X3D has increased by about $100 in the past 30 days, from ~$360 to ~$460.
base speed 32gb ddr 5 ram goes for around 800€, aka 4800 MT.
The people that predicted this face a dilemma. They were ridiculed when their forecast was against popular opinion and now they are ostracized because they were right. I've seen this happen to many researchers in AI and it's demoralizing.
These hindsight fortune tellers are tiring.
If your crystal ball was that reliable you could have easily doubled your wealthy by playing the market. In which case you would have been boasting about it. Not just complaining.
Based on the benchmarks that I've seen, 5800X3D is still a good CPU for games, when paired with a very expensive GPU, otherwise a 5600X is cheaper and acts less than a heater over the winter. Someone with the money for a nVidia 5800 GPU will pair it with a 9800X3D, for most games even 16 GB of RAM will work and would be cheap enough, while for applications one does not need X3D, so what exactly is the point of 5800X3D scalping?
5800x3d / 5700x3d are MUCH MUCH MUCH faster than non-x3d in some games that are CPU bound (for some even 2x / 3x faster than non-x3d) so even with a "slower" GPU it can still be a large upgrade
when you game in 4K thats only relevant for games like factorio or city skylines.
world of warcraft has a huge speedup on x3d
in the main capital, yes. but even in raids i hit 120 fps in 4k with my 5800x.
You are simply not making any meaningful amount of heat with a 5800X3D. You're talking about a TDP of 105W and a PPT of 142W.
And that's under extreme loads. In gaming it's only like 50-75w
https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/images/power-g...
from https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/24.ht...
> 5600X is cheaper and acts less than a heater over the winter
It’s impossible to keep my 5800x below 90C under full load.
Does your motherboard have auto-oc enabled? Have you checked what voltage it's using? Have you tried setting a negative voltage offset and stability testing? Some motherboards will apply 1.3v+ when 1.2v is plenty.
Then you need better cooling. The stock coolers are pretty mediocre.
The Ryzen CPUs seem to be designed to spike as high as whatever thermal limit you configure with Precision Boost Overdrive.
Mine runs at 60C when running Prime95 at full load, i got a open bench case though.
The 7000 series is designed to hit those loads, i wonder how your 5000 series can even reach that.
This is where the 5700X shines. 8 cores, still cool.
The 5700X has the same 8 cores as a 5800X3D but with a slightly higher maximum clock speed (the X3D CPUs tend to have lower maximum voltages because the extra cache die doesn't tolerate voltages as high as the CPU cores do). The only reason the 5700X is running cooler for you is because it comes with a 65W "TDP" setting out of the box rather than the 105W "TDP" setting used by the 5800X3D. If you configure a 5800X3D to operate at the same power limit, it'll give you generally better performance than a 5700X.
In general, buying a power-limited desktop CPU has never been a good strategy to get better efficiency. You can always configure the full-power chip to only use that extra headroom for short bursts, and to throttle down to what you consider acceptable for sustained workloads.
And the 7900 ! (AM5 though)
> so what exactly is the point of 5800X3D scalping
in the past, growth in PC gaming came naturally with the growth in the adoption of computers around the world.
at saturation of "new to computers" audiences, growth in PC gaming comes from convincing the core gaming demographic, newly-turned 13 year old boys, to agitate for PCs instead of XYZ.
so a big part of it is the retail-marketing experience - the aesthetics of buying - and scalping / sense of urgency plays extremely well with the buyer who actually chooses PC over a nintendo switch, as opposed to a kid who will never make the more expensive choice ever.
this is really a story about saturation than it is about hardware or shortages for AI usage or whatever.
Pc gaming is also massively cheaper than consoles these days so the lifetime cost is lower
How?
Consoles don’t pay for online subscriptions with f2p games anymore, which is the overwhelming lions share of online play today.
Consoles also get to flip games you’re done with. I’m positive about 3 of my friends spend much less than I do on gaming these days because of all the games they buy, play once, then flip again on FB market place
And then you get to the rising entry level cost of PC gaming. If you want something better than a Steam deck you’re looking at 1K USD to start with an Intel dGPU
But I guess if you’re fine with a Steam deck it’s a bit cheaper than consoles to start
The best claim that PC gaming has today is that it has a much larger library with indies that don’t release on console
I have a 5700X3D laying around. Should I finally get around to installing it? Or should I sell it? I have a 3600 installed.
If you aren’t using it then sell