This $9B figure is not a serious number; it’s a narrative. The concrete allegations released so far peg the criminal impact closer to $250 million which, let’s be honest, is bad enough.
As a Minnesotan, I’m appalled by the scale of these thefts, but glad they are actively investigating and charging these people for their crimes. If we had an honest and right minded political/justice system, we would be seeking to uncover and prosecute fraud through the nation.
To my understanding, the total spending is around $18B, so the allegation that 50% of all spending is fraudulent requires quite the sniff test. Additionally, large multi-billion dollar fraud causes are usually associated with large organizations (like a hospital or insurance system) which is not the case here.
Could it be $9B+? Stick enough vague qualifying words around your presentation of the probable truth then yea, sure - at least $9B in spending could be fraudulent.
I know so many honest citizens who could have benefitted from a tiny fraction of that money.
But it's been under investigation for 4.5 years as I understand, and the theoretical numbers thrown by politicians (hype/lies) are increasingly confusing. So what's the hope for any correction?
I don’t hear many people in Minnesota trying to pretend the existence of these crimes is a hoax, fake news, etc. - so the hope is that we take our prosecutorial responsibilities seriously. Perhaps, so seriously that we set an expectation for the investigation and criminal prosecution of fraud and corruption vertically as well.
I've not been keeping up with the news lately though I'd heard about this in passing. Was this tipped off from prior investigations wrapping up finally, or the current federal gov's hatred of Walz and Omar?
I mainly ask because it makes me curious how much fraud exists in other states - basically are we picking on MN, or are they the exception?
It seems people in this thread are getting downvoted for pointing out that your questions are reasonable.
There's a lot of disputes between state and federal authorities about this. The 9B figure is being disputed, and there's a lot of claims that the state has been kept in the dark about it intentionally, with claims that MN GOP House members on fraud investigation committees have been purposely withholding information from the state, forwarding their information instead to federal prosecutors. These House members don't seem to deny this:
I'm not sure people are really disputing that the fraud happened. I think there are disagreements about the scope of it and about the way in which the investigation has been happening, and the motives for the way in which it has happened.
Here's the whistleblower portal they set up earlier this year for example:
Yeah, I usually shy away from these threads because any hint of politicism drives tribalism and people assuming whatever I said is on the enemy side, whatever that is. I just wanted to get more informed thoughts and opinions.
In any event, thank you for the response and links.
And we keep getting them elected. Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads.
> Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads
You cease to have a democracy. The real power sits with the verifier in that system.
As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested.
Instead, they speculate about a ridiculous amount of money being stolen ($9B) that is likely an order of magnitude larger than the actual loss, providing no proof, and sharing zero information with the relevant agencies in Minnesota’s government.
If there is fraud, please prosecute it and collaborate with my state’s government to uncover it so our tax dollars can go towards medical care for real people.
Actual fraud has happened here in MN, an organization called Feed Our Future stole hundreds of millions of dollars by claiming to provide food to students. [0], [1] We’d appreciate any actual help the federal government can provide, instead we get politicized press releases.
News is also claiming the GOP committee investigating fraud purposely withheld whistleblower information they had that would have led to investigation earlier. That is they were impeding investigation for political gain:
This $9B figure is not a serious number; it’s a narrative. The concrete allegations released so far peg the criminal impact closer to $250 million which, let’s be honest, is bad enough.
As a Minnesotan, I’m appalled by the scale of these thefts, but glad they are actively investigating and charging these people for their crimes. If we had an honest and right minded political/justice system, we would be seeking to uncover and prosecute fraud through the nation.
It’s not like multi-billion Medicare / Medicaid fraud is unheard of. What makes you certain it’s not a serious number?
To my understanding, the total spending is around $18B, so the allegation that 50% of all spending is fraudulent requires quite the sniff test. Additionally, large multi-billion dollar fraud causes are usually associated with large organizations (like a hospital or insurance system) which is not the case here.
Could it be $9B+? Stick enough vague qualifying words around your presentation of the probable truth then yea, sure - at least $9B in spending could be fraudulent.
I know so many honest citizens who could have benefitted from a tiny fraction of that money.
But it's been under investigation for 4.5 years as I understand, and the theoretical numbers thrown by politicians (hype/lies) are increasingly confusing. So what's the hope for any correction?
I don’t hear many people in Minnesota trying to pretend the existence of these crimes is a hoax, fake news, etc. - so the hope is that we take our prosecutorial responsibilities seriously. Perhaps, so seriously that we set an expectation for the investigation and criminal prosecution of fraud and corruption vertically as well.
If true, it’s an eye watering amount for such a small state.
If Florida is anything to go by, the person responsible for this will run for Governor then Senator while winning both elections.
I've not been keeping up with the news lately though I'd heard about this in passing. Was this tipped off from prior investigations wrapping up finally, or the current federal gov's hatred of Walz and Omar?
I mainly ask because it makes me curious how much fraud exists in other states - basically are we picking on MN, or are they the exception?
It seems people in this thread are getting downvoted for pointing out that your questions are reasonable.
There's a lot of disputes between state and federal authorities about this. The 9B figure is being disputed, and there's a lot of claims that the state has been kept in the dark about it intentionally, with claims that MN GOP House members on fraud investigation committees have been purposely withholding information from the state, forwarding their information instead to federal prosecutors. These House members don't seem to deny this:
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-wi...
https://www.startribune.com/walz-says-theres-no-evidence-of-...
I'm not sure people are really disputing that the fraud happened. I think there are disagreements about the scope of it and about the way in which the investigation has been happening, and the motives for the way in which it has happened.
Here's the whistleblower portal they set up earlier this year for example:
https://mnhouserepublicans.com/whistleblower-portal/
They then forwarded tips to the federal DOJ and not the state.
So are they picking on MN? I don't think the fraud, to the extent it is there, is them picking on them. The way in which this has unfolded might be.
Yeah, I usually shy away from these threads because any hint of politicism drives tribalism and people assuming whatever I said is on the enemy side, whatever that is. I just wanted to get more informed thoughts and opinions.
In any event, thank you for the response and links.
Just a reminder, the poor don't do the billing. Businesses do.
"Up to 100% of immigrants may be criminals."
That statement is not factually incorrect. Neither is this statement: “Up to 100% of US citizens may be criminals”
Yes.
“Up to 100% of politicians may be criminals”
And we keep getting them elected. Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads.
> Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads
You cease to have a democracy. The real power sits with the verifier in that system.
Important point.
I remember when I could trust Federal Prosecutors when they announced a crime had been committed.
Says federal government whose credibility is worthless and has likely caused fraud multiple times this baseless estimate.
The press release is 100% political.
As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested.
Instead, they speculate about a ridiculous amount of money being stolen ($9B) that is likely an order of magnitude larger than the actual loss, providing no proof, and sharing zero information with the relevant agencies in Minnesota’s government.
If there is fraud, please prosecute it and collaborate with my state’s government to uncover it so our tax dollars can go towards medical care for real people.
Actual fraud has happened here in MN, an organization called Feed Our Future stole hundreds of millions of dollars by claiming to provide food to students. [0], [1] We’d appreciate any actual help the federal government can provide, instead we get politicized press releases.
[0] https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/minnea...
[1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-fe...
News is also claiming the GOP committee investigating fraud purposely withheld whistleblower information they had that would have led to investigation earlier. That is they were impeding investigation for political gain:
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-wi...
Wow, Najmo Ahmed, Said Ereg and Abdirashid Bixi Dool really did that?
What is this supposed to mean? Elaborate