> I told some friends about it, and they said, yes, and we have "Pennsyltucky" too. But when I looked that up, it wasn't nearly so demeaning as "Counciltucky". It basically just means Pennsylvania minus the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia metropolitan areas
The size of the area has nothing to do with how demeaning the term is. The term is centered on calling the region, to oversimplify, an underdeveloped poor rural backwater.
Just because Pennsylvania has a larger chunk of land that some would describe that way than Council Bluffs does doesn't inherently change that both terms are demeaning.
I haven't been to Council Bluffs, but I have spent time in parts of Pennsylvania outside the Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and State College metros, and while I'm not going to proclaim wisdom without having lived there I certainly saw where the term and stereotype came from.
The author (Victor Mair) of the piece makes two errors:
(1) Omaha and Council Bluffs are not twin cities. The former doesn't think about the latter, and the latter sees the former as workplace, shopping mall and zoo.
(2) The residents of Omaha didn't coin the term 'Counciltucky.' That privilege belongs to the residents of Council Bluffs themselves.
Reference: a former resident of Council Bluffs who is a current resident of Omaha.
They make a third error, which is claiming that Pennsyltucky is not primarily used derogatorily. It's absolutely a pejorative for the region, not "just a name".
I live in Lincoln, so about 50 miles south of Omaha. I think a crucial point left out by the author here may be the massive (at least perceived) demographic disparities between Omaha and Council Bluffs.
Council Bluffs is a vastly less financially successful city than Omaha with far more visible opioid problems.
That is to say, as a local, I don’t know if I would associate the term as much with demeaning “hillbillies or hicks” but more for the socioeconomic and drug disparities between the two cities.
I don’t know if the drug disparity is so large between them, but it certainly feels more visible in Council Bluffs. Maybe why we don’t see the -tucky suffix used as much with other twin cities is that St Paul and Fort Worth are still quite successful metropolitan areas in their own right.
It's crazy how the etymology of "Kentucky" cannot be traced with certainty. Goes to show how much of the native American culture and language is now untraceable and how fragile our record-keeping is, even in "modern times".
The etymology I’ve heard isn’t even listed in the article.
One theory traces “Kentucky” to early forms like Cantucky or Cane-tucky, referring to the region’s vast river-cane brakes, Kentucky River cane, North America’s only native bamboo, which early inhabitants associated with fertile, game-rich land.
"Pennsyltucky" doesn't necessarily mean "the rural parts of PA." It can mean "the swath of country roughly from Pennsylvania to Kentucky" or "places like that" or it can be even broader than that. Or it can simply mean "Pennsylvania." It's really not so easy to pigeonhole this stuff. Not accurately anyway.
It's helpful to write these things down. What's not helpful is using them as if they were precise and definitive.
If you've badgered me in an attempt to get a different answer, try Google or Wikipedia.
Are you saying those are additional possible meanings of Pennsyltucky, or that you've heard people use it to mean all of those?
I have only ever heard it used to mean the rural areas between the two cities, in keeping with the saying "Pittsburgh on one side, Philly on the other, and Kentucky in between", which has of course confused people not familiar with the stereotypes or geography.
The other famous use of Pennsyltucky is the character in Orange is the New Black, which I've always taken to mean "she acts like she's from Pennsyltucky".
I guess we need to wait for the term to be used enough to get into a dictionary to get it well defined
Where have you ever seen it to refer to the entire state, or as anything other than a derogatory term for the people who don't live in the Philly or Pittsburgh metro areas?
But Dallas, as people in my circles talk about Dallas is everything from Denton / Lewisville maybe even Little Elm / Prosper / Celina to Waxahachie. Dallas Fort Worth is not a twin city at all in my opinion.
It’s not easy to express negative things. No matter how many neutral terms we invent, they become pejorative in the end and we have to invent new ones by switching the words around.
It's plenty easy to express negative things. What's not easy is convincing people that negative things are actually positive, which is why words that refer to negative things are perceived as being negative words.
retard, v.
[ad. F. retarder (13th c., = Sp. and Pg. retardar, It. ritardare), or L. retardāre, f. re- re- + tardus slow.]
1.1 trans. To keep back, to delay, hinder, impede (a person or thing in respect of progress, movement, action, or accomplishment).
c 1489 Caxton Blanchardyn xxiii. 75 Here is one doubte that retardeth myne ymagynacyon.
1636 Denham Destr. Troy 423 The one retarded was By feeble age, the other by a wound.
1660 F. Brooke tr. Le Blanc's Trav. 260 The sight of this fishing retarded us above an houre.
2.2 To delay the progress or accomplishment, to impede the course, of (an action, movement, etc.).
1572 Reg. Privy Council Scot. II. 158 That sa haly a work be not retardit.
1610 B. Jonson Alch. iv. v, This'll retard The worke, a month at least.
1642 C. Vernon Consid. Exch. 91 The principal causes which have hindred and retarded the due answering of the Kings Revenues and Debts.
b.2.b To defer, postpone, put off. rare.
1735 in Pope's Lett. Suppl. 11 He retarded his Edition of Mr. Cromwell's Letters till the Twenty-Second of March.
1820 Scott Monast. xvi, If we were now either to advance or retard the hour of refection beyond the time.
3.3 intr. To be delayed; to come, appear, or happen later; to undergo retardation.
1646 Sir T. Browne Pseud. Ep. 194 Putrefaction‥shall retard or accelerate according to the subject and season of the year.
1665 Phil. Trans. I. 38 The Comet advances‥towards the East, and‥retards towards the West.
1738 Ibid. XL. 312 The next Evening it retarded two Hours.
b.3.b To delay to do something. rare—1.
a 1732 Gay Tales, Apparition, Call loud on Justice, bid her not retard To punish murder.
As a noun:
1.1 Retardation, delay. in retard, retarded, delayed; in the rear of.
1788 Jefferson Writ. 1859 II. 353 A single day's retard.
1865 Carlyle Fredk. Gt. xv. x. (1872) VI. 65 The rearward regiments‥are in painful retard.
1886 Ruskin Præterita I. iv. 132, I was far in retard of them in real knowledge.
2.2 retard of the tide or retard of high water, the interval between the moon's transit and the high water following upon this. Also ellipt.
1833 Phil. Trans. CXXIII. 19 The retard‥at Portsmouth appears to be intermediate between that at Brest and at London.
1845 Encycl. Metrop. V. 257* marg., Retard of high water upon the moon's transit.
1862 New Amer. Cycl. XV. 471 At Boston, this delay, which is called the retard, or age of the tide, is nearly 36 hours.
3.3 A device in a motor vehicle for retarding the ignition spark.
1932 Motoring Encycl. 10/3 The Bosch automatic advance and retard (Fig. 3) is a simple design for a stationary armature type of magneto.
1977 Hot Car Oct. 75/3 The old one is capped off still retaining the advance retard.
4.4 U.S. slang. A mentally retarded person.
1970 Time 23 Mar. 49 There are‥heroin addicts, Air Force and CIA mental retards and Broadway Indians doing a Broadway Snake Dance.
I remember "-tucky" being used in my part of Southeastern Michigan, in the early 1980s. It may have been related to the historical migration of people from Appalachia to the Detroit area during the heyday of the car industry.
I grew up in a twin city and it's OK. It isn't an insult, St Paul and Minneapolis are close. There's no "-tucky" understanding though. They are different cities and that's fine...
Someone jokingly referred to Glendale, AZ as "Glentucky" once in my presence. I don't remember exactly when and where, I think I remember who, but I am pretty sure it was "Glentucky" even though "Glenducky" would have also worked. :D
> I told some friends about it, and they said, yes, and we have "Pennsyltucky" too. But when I looked that up, it wasn't nearly so demeaning as "Counciltucky". It basically just means Pennsylvania minus the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia metropolitan areas
The size of the area has nothing to do with how demeaning the term is. The term is centered on calling the region, to oversimplify, an underdeveloped poor rural backwater.
Just because Pennsylvania has a larger chunk of land that some would describe that way than Council Bluffs does doesn't inherently change that both terms are demeaning.
I haven't been to Council Bluffs, but I have spent time in parts of Pennsylvania outside the Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and State College metros, and while I'm not going to proclaim wisdom without having lived there I certainly saw where the term and stereotype came from.
The author (Victor Mair) of the piece makes two errors:
(1) Omaha and Council Bluffs are not twin cities. The former doesn't think about the latter, and the latter sees the former as workplace, shopping mall and zoo.
(2) The residents of Omaha didn't coin the term 'Counciltucky.' That privilege belongs to the residents of Council Bluffs themselves.
Reference: a former resident of Council Bluffs who is a current resident of Omaha.
They make a third error, which is claiming that Pennsyltucky is not primarily used derogatorily. It's absolutely a pejorative for the region, not "just a name".
I live in Lincoln, so about 50 miles south of Omaha. I think a crucial point left out by the author here may be the massive (at least perceived) demographic disparities between Omaha and Council Bluffs.
Council Bluffs is a vastly less financially successful city than Omaha with far more visible opioid problems.
That is to say, as a local, I don’t know if I would associate the term as much with demeaning “hillbillies or hicks” but more for the socioeconomic and drug disparities between the two cities.
I don’t know if the drug disparity is so large between them, but it certainly feels more visible in Council Bluffs. Maybe why we don’t see the -tucky suffix used as much with other twin cities is that St Paul and Fort Worth are still quite successful metropolitan areas in their own right.
It's crazy how the etymology of "Kentucky" cannot be traced with certainty. Goes to show how much of the native American culture and language is now untraceable and how fragile our record-keeping is, even in "modern times".
The etymology I’ve heard isn’t even listed in the article. One theory traces “Kentucky” to early forms like Cantucky or Cane-tucky, referring to the region’s vast river-cane brakes, Kentucky River cane, North America’s only native bamboo, which early inhabitants associated with fertile, game-rich land.
"Pennsyltucky" doesn't necessarily mean "the rural parts of PA." It can mean "the swath of country roughly from Pennsylvania to Kentucky" or "places like that" or it can be even broader than that. Or it can simply mean "Pennsylvania." It's really not so easy to pigeonhole this stuff. Not accurately anyway.
It's helpful to write these things down. What's not helpful is using them as if they were precise and definitive.
If you've badgered me in an attempt to get a different answer, try Google or Wikipedia.
Are you saying those are additional possible meanings of Pennsyltucky, or that you've heard people use it to mean all of those?
I have only ever heard it used to mean the rural areas between the two cities, in keeping with the saying "Pittsburgh on one side, Philly on the other, and Kentucky in between", which has of course confused people not familiar with the stereotypes or geography.
The other famous use of Pennsyltucky is the character in Orange is the New Black, which I've always taken to mean "she acts like she's from Pennsyltucky".
I guess we need to wait for the term to be used enough to get into a dictionary to get it well defined
Where have you ever seen it to refer to the entire state, or as anything other than a derogatory term for the people who don't live in the Philly or Pittsburgh metro areas?
Try the Quad (or Quint) Cities if you want a dynamic with more than two cities. Three on the Illinois side, one (or two) on the Iowa side.
(It started as a “tri cities” so the bump to five isn’t the first it’s seen)
Bonus points: an OK native pizza style if you like tavern-ish pizza varieties.
Related to TFA, a “judgmental map” of Omaha and Council Bluffs:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0a/db/ea/0adbea3bcdffbcb4ccfe6ec10...
Warning that these are usually offensive, or at least have the potential to offend (but often super helpful when visiting a new city…)
Council Bluffs just gets a blanket “meth and casinos” label.
> Dallas-Fort Worth
But Dallas, as people in my circles talk about Dallas is everything from Denton / Lewisville maybe even Little Elm / Prosper / Celina to Waxahachie. Dallas Fort Worth is not a twin city at all in my opinion.
I would love to hear your opinion.
Caveat: I haven't lived in Dallas for a long time.
But there was a definite cut-off past which it wasn't "Dallas" to us, anymore. Anything west of Arlington was definitely Fort Worth.
But I wonder if people from Fort Worth considered Arlington to be part of their city, and anything east of Grand Prairie was their cut-off line.
I suspect not. There's a large natural physical barrier stretching from Kennedale to Mosier Valley.
Village Creek is the cultural divide betweenvthe cities on both sides.
It’s not easy to express negative things. No matter how many neutral terms we invent, they become pejorative in the end and we have to invent new ones by switching the words around.
It's plenty easy to express negative things. What's not easy is convincing people that negative things are actually positive, which is why words that refer to negative things are perceived as being negative words.
Yep, like the word "retard" was a medical term when it was first coined.
So was “moron”. “Below average” is an insult too, yet we couldn’t ask for a more general term.
And it's still a perfectly neutral term in French, where your "Delayed" flight is "Retardé".
When was it first coined?
As a verb:
As a noun: ~ Oxford English Dictionary Second Edition (CD-ROM v. 4.0 © Oxford University Press 2009)I remember "-tucky" being used in my part of Southeastern Michigan, in the early 1980s. It may have been related to the historical migration of people from Appalachia to the Detroit area during the heyday of the car industry.
I grew up in a twin city and it's OK. It isn't an insult, St Paul and Minneapolis are close. There's no "-tucky" understanding though. They are different cities and that's fine...
Cf. Spokompton (Spokane, WA + Compton).
Another -ucky is Ventucky, CA which is a local name for Ventura as mixture of Kentucky and beach town.
Someone jokingly referred to Glendale, AZ as "Glentucky" once in my presence. I don't remember exactly when and where, I think I remember who, but I am pretty sure it was "Glentucky" even though "Glenducky" would have also worked. :D