In Belgium, our Minister of Defence talks about buying services from Palantir, and wants to let Oracle build a cloud for the Defence department. He even dares to say that this will result in our own Sovereign Data Streams [1]. I can imagine this is a guy that will have not a single issue sharing the requested data with the US Government, even in the face of the recent hostility of the US towards the EU.
Multiple countries have already been sharing this information between eachother and the U.S. to some capacity for some time now and hardly anyone raises a stink about it [0] except us old-man-yells-at-cloud folk.
I think GP is right that if not for Trump, no one would care. Like the majority of the U.S.'s over-reaching policies that have largely only come under scrutiny in recent times (at least, amongst this audience).
How does this have anything to do with freedom or lack thereof? If foreign countries want to participate in the travel screening program for visa-free travel then they have to provide certain data. This is nothing new. Countries can opt out of this program and then individual travelers will have to apply for visas in order to enter the USA.
This is for the visa-free travel program (VWP). The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record.
If European countries don't want to grant access that's their right, but it's not at all an unreasonable thing for the US to want access to, if the data exists and is easy to check. If someone is a convicted sex trafficker or drug dealer or whatever, I'm fully in favor of not letting them into the country.
> The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record ... it's not at all an unreasonable thing for the US to want access to
It might not be an unreasonable request for a gov with a long history of abiding to agreements - and w/o a long history of misusing data for the benefit of Gov & gov partners.
Which means it is a fully unreasonable request by the US Gov (of any administration).
But a request by a US Gov
that gifts its citizens' most sensitive data
to one of the world's least ethical data brokers
so that vulnerable people can be mistreated in bulk?
Burn the paper the request is written on. Threaten to kill the next messenger they send. And brick up the door they knocked on.
In Belgium, our Minister of Defence talks about buying services from Palantir, and wants to let Oracle build a cloud for the Defence department. He even dares to say that this will result in our own Sovereign Data Streams [1]. I can imagine this is a guy that will have not a single issue sharing the requested data with the US Government, even in the face of the recent hostility of the US towards the EU.
[1] https://x.com/FranckenTheo/status/1975429782432055712
10 years ago this wouldn’t have been a big deal but don’t think the US in its current form should be given access
10 years ago this would have been a big deal, because the US (or any country) can always change "forms".
Actually that's why you shouldn't create databases like that to begin with.
Mate, 10 years ago I would have raged about this ... and I'm ready to rage now.
> 10 years ago this wouldn’t have been a big deal
Famous last words
That ship sailed for the most part. This data is already commonly shared between countries.
Multiple countries have already been sharing this information between eachother and the U.S. to some capacity for some time now and hardly anyone raises a stink about it [0] except us old-man-yells-at-cloud folk.
I think GP is right that if not for Trump, no one would care. Like the majority of the U.S.'s over-reaching policies that have largely only come under scrutiny in recent times (at least, amongst this audience).
[0] https://www.biometricupdate.com/202406/five-eyes-biometric-d...
So .. is this reciprocal or just a demand?
Is there a link to a primary source with more details? I skimmed the video and see some quotes but couldn’t find the policy that they come from
Found this but it’s quite old so seems the US has been trying to get hold of it for a while
https://etias.com/articles/us-demands-direct-access-to-eu-da...
Maybe we should give it to them, and they will all be redacted
Naturally it is Europe that is the totalitarian freedom hating place at risk of civilisational erasure, not the US.
How does this have anything to do with freedom or lack thereof? If foreign countries want to participate in the travel screening program for visa-free travel then they have to provide certain data. This is nothing new. Countries can opt out of this program and then individual travelers will have to apply for visas in order to enter the USA.
This is for the visa-free travel program (VWP). The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record.
If European countries don't want to grant access that's their right, but it's not at all an unreasonable thing for the US to want access to, if the data exists and is easy to check. If someone is a convicted sex trafficker or drug dealer or whatever, I'm fully in favor of not letting them into the country.
> The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record ... it's not at all an unreasonable thing for the US to want access to
It might not be an unreasonable request for a gov with a long history of abiding to agreements - and w/o a long history of misusing data for the benefit of Gov & gov partners.
Which means it is a fully unreasonable request by the US Gov (of any administration).
Burn the paper the request is written on. Threaten to kill the next messenger they send. And brick up the door they knocked on.I dunno. If people crime, are convicted, and serve their time, I'd say they paid their debt.
I know some people don't think that way though. Better hope they never find themselves in that situation.
> The US wants to check whether people who show up for vacation without a visa have a criminal record.
Surprisingly, (at least some) European countries will tell you directly whether someone has a specific criminal record (given that someone's consent.)
If that's what the US wanted, then that could be given directly. But that's not what the US is asking for.
lol no, I don't think the US is asking for the subset of criminal records which the criminals have consented to sharing.
I think the idea is that if you don't consent you don't cross the border.
"The US" is an ever-changing collection of millions of people. Each with their own individual capacities to do good and bad and everything in between.
When you create systems that are easy to abuse, some of the people in the system will abuse the system.
Wait, so they want unrestricted access to all databases or only access the entries for those that travel to the US?