Find a smallish company that exists for 15+ years and isn't acting like they're about to solve the biggest problem in human history or boasting about 12 gigabillion percent of growth in the last year. There are plenty of them but they easily fly under the radar, especially in older industries (real estate, newspapers, banking, &c.). You can try working for a governmental or non profit thing too
Yep. There are plenty of small manufacturing companies that have embedded programming projects that aren't sexy or cutting edge, but are just little STM32 or similar chips running bare metal no-OS code for all kinds of simple little devices for different industries. I've been doing that work for the past twenty years. It scratches my engineering itch, but also lets me work pretty independently, put in my mostly stress free 40 hours a week, and then go home and not think about it.
I agree on both points; government work can involve very little real work with no real stress of being fired. Similarly, doing meaningless work will destroy your soul and will make you hate your time in the office even more. I'd even go so far as to say caring deeply about your profession is a western value, and trying to work as little as possible is going to be difficult in a western country
I do satellites now but when I worked in insurance the work we did was meaningful. People need insurance, their policies are stored as data, and the company had to manage millions of policies.
Increasing click-through rates may not feel meaningful, but writing unit tests for a satellite which has already launched and been decommissioned will eat your soul, and you likely won't become a better developer because of it since you won't be given a budget to improve things or try new tech.
If you like tech (sw dev in particular based on the roles) enough to do it but can't motivate yourself to do it for a job, consider making it a hobby and changing careers. Don't ruin your passion by making it a chore.
Jobs that are "low effort" are rare, usually you need one of:
- time: job is time consuming (think monitoring cameras for N hours a day)
- physical: job requires physical work (think sorting boxes in a warehouse or janitorial work)
- skilled: job requires certification/skill (think electrician or engineering)
- social: job requires interacting with humans (think customer support or sales)
Depending on you skillset/preferences select one or two and search for vocations/jobs. Jobs usually have a mix of them (and there are likely some more categories). Jobs always require effort, that's why people are paying for it. If you want to reduce time look for "part time" jobs.
If you are fine with mid-low pay, take a look at jobs in public institutions (Education, Government). They tend to have rather good long term working conditions and are commonly open to people changing careers into public service.
A colleague of mine is developing an internal tool nobody needs in a large IT corporation. Since it's not client facing, there's no rush from project managers. It's dragged on so long that other internal tools have already implemented most of the needed functionality - so there's no good value proposition now. The only argument keeping it alive is sunk cost fallacy. Colleague works minimal required 3 day weeks, spends maybe 2 hours in the office drinking coffee, and tells me how he enjoys life with lots of hikes and outdoor activities.
I can understand you are like this. Just be upfront about it during interviews. You might be surprised there are companies which are absolutely fine with that.
I'm on the other end, I do think your life should revolve around the thing that you are doing 8+ hours a day. I currently have colleagues which are the same like you and it feels I have to pull them through the mud. Just be upfront about it and find a good fit ( I too should find a better fit 8) )
I suppose I am on a similar boat wrt job satisfaction and the direction things have gone and are going in this industry. I am also one step ahead of you, from the sound of it, in a job that doesn't require me to devote my life to it and gives me time for personal projects, gym, and just figuring out shit in life. This is not to boast, but to give you a heads-up: I haven't figured out much of anything just yet, and I am not strictly sure my current position is significantly better than what was before it. Perhaps slightly better, with more time to think, and having somewhat detached myself emotionally from the job. Which is to say, if you can take a break altogether with somebody else supporting you financially, I'd do that and really consider things as an "outsider" to your own life. Also talk to people to get more perspective. Otherwise, I think I concur with the other suggestions given here.
Find a role at a large "non-tech" comapny in a large department on a mid sized team. I had several jobs like that and the amount of effort required in the average day was minimal. Probably less than an hour a day of actual meaningful work. You'll hate your job but it's extremely easy and pays decent.
Entire roles have been created for people to do this, in exchange the headcount makes your manager look more important.
In tech alone there exists: product managers, scrum masters, middle managers of all kinds.
If you want to stay in tech, look for roles that can be filled by someone who doesn't know how to build or sell the product.
Every business has to deal with supply and demand, the further you are from those things, the more likely the job is bullshit, and not doing it will be unnoticeable.
I had one of these. Comfortable income; not big tech but well over USA median. Remote. Put in 5-15 hours a week.
Strongly recommend against it.
What I would recommend instead is have a hard look at what's causing pain in your current situation. Try and get as concrete as possible. Try going one level deeper from 'world is hyper capitalistic' to what hurts. When I talk to people that express similar views there is usually some other deep hurt that is going unaddressed. ie 'im not being valued for my work', 'I have a deep fear I will not be able to provide or be valued', 'I like tech, but the current structure of tech employers doesnt fit well with me(weird noises in offices are deeply uncomfortable)' etc.
It's almost counterintuitive but 60 hard hours / week at something you enjoy and thrive in will be easier and feel better like 5 hours at something you hate. Most everyone has a desire to feel valued and needed, so look for what that can be for you. Note prestige of impact != internal satisfaction. If you enjoy serving tea, then doing that for little money (and lots of time) will feel better in the long run than doing a few hours of tech work you despise.
Also... strongly recommend tuning out from the internet / news / social media. Sensationalist headlines can obscure our felt experience of life.
Reading between the lines of your post, Im not sure if what you want is a job with low hours or to solve your deep unhappiness? If I told you I had a job that paid well but you would still be happy would you take it?
That's like a dream job for me. I'm going to use the rest of the time to hack on OS kernels instead of losing sleep over it. The thing is, people rarely get to work on what they are passionate about. At least I literally have seen none, after spending so many years in 5+ companies, none of my team is very passionate about the job, which is understandable.
Agreed. I walked past a high-end fashion store in a major European city recently. The big glass door was locked, with a sign explaining that the shop was open, the door was locked to prevent theft. There was one young woman inside staffing the shop, sitting behind a counter. I envied her, I could happily take minimum wage for a year or so, sitting at a desk all day with very occasional interruption, while I tap at a laptop working on personal projects. Unfortunately I'm not a glamorous 20-something European woman.
That's what I did. Hobbies & Side work. Traveling!
The key is to set boundaries, learn which 5 hours of work are important and manage expectations well. Im convinced you get most of your work done in the first 20 hours of the week and there's diminishing returns after that. Manual labor scales pretty linearly with time. Software development not so much.
This accurately describes many tech jobs outside of FAANG or the startup scene. Lay low, close your tickets, and invest aggressively into the S&P 500. You'll be done in about 12 years. Most you'll need to worry about are fudging annual "goals" that have nothing to do with the actual work.
Really this sounds like apathy and disillusionment with the state of the mainstream, a sentiment i understand perfectly. I would encourage you to consider web contracting for local businesses or communities you're a part of. You'll have to take ownership of what you do and care about it, but consider that will be much easier to do when you actually do value what you're a part of and what you're doing. When it's not making gambling apps, slop generators, or DRM for juice presses, you might be surprised at how your outlook on work changes.
I would aim... Away from the glare of the software world.
There are plenty of smallish companies that just bob along. If you pinch your nose for long enough you quickly become indispensable, and your productivity will rarely be very challenged.
But... Be aware. "Bullshit jobs" can be enjoyed only by the right mind. Most people find them miserable anyway, it doesn't really matter if they are easy, or low effort.
(This means also that I disagree with recommending to become Project or Product Manager - when those roles are properly useless... They are also soul crushing, with layers of stress on top)
State schools is what you want. Strict 9-5, no overtime, no expectations, insane bureaucracy that makes everything slow down to a crawl. You can spend years there without doing anything at all.
This is not my experience whatsoever and someone who works 50+ weeks for big tech. Especially with decreased value for the human element in favor of AI there are now more demands than ever. Engineers have become much more expendable.
I've been in big tech for 12+ years now. The first handful of years are definitely a grind to earn your spot, get a couple promos. After that though, it can become quite a bit easier to coast if that's what you're looking for. People know you, know you're probably valuable cause you're "senior" or "staff" and still here, and likely leave you alone. But yeah, as a newer engineer these days, it still requires the initial commitment to earn the privilege of coasting in a big tech company.
This is what I kept thinking as well. In my experience big companies can't get things done and people fly under the radar all the time not doing anything.
"Part-time" is the keyword you are looking for. Besides coding, if you want to get into bullshit jobs, become an agile coach, scrum master, product owner, etc...
Find a smallish company that exists for 15+ years and isn't acting like they're about to solve the biggest problem in human history or boasting about 12 gigabillion percent of growth in the last year. There are plenty of them but they easily fly under the radar, especially in older industries (real estate, newspapers, banking, &c.). You can try working for a governmental or non profit thing too
Yep. There are plenty of small manufacturing companies that have embedded programming projects that aren't sexy or cutting edge, but are just little STM32 or similar chips running bare metal no-OS code for all kinds of simple little devices for different industries. I've been doing that work for the past twenty years. It scratches my engineering itch, but also lets me work pretty independently, put in my mostly stress free 40 hours a week, and then go home and not think about it.
Government jobs. But my experience tells me that getting away with doing nothing is very corrosive to the soul and will be regretted later.
State or local. They’re hard workers federally.
lol
I agree on both points; government work can involve very little real work with no real stress of being fired. Similarly, doing meaningless work will destroy your soul and will make you hate your time in the office even more. I'd even go so far as to say caring deeply about your profession is a western value, and trying to work as little as possible is going to be difficult in a western country
> doing meaningless work will destroy your soul
You think commercial software is meaningful? You think web apps, mobile apps, etc. are meaningful? If so, you are very lucky!
I do satellites now but when I worked in insurance the work we did was meaningful. People need insurance, their policies are stored as data, and the company had to manage millions of policies.
Increasing click-through rates may not feel meaningful, but writing unit tests for a satellite which has already launched and been decommissioned will eat your soul, and you likely won't become a better developer because of it since you won't be given a budget to improve things or try new tech.
If you like tech (sw dev in particular based on the roles) enough to do it but can't motivate yourself to do it for a job, consider making it a hobby and changing careers. Don't ruin your passion by making it a chore.
Jobs that are "low effort" are rare, usually you need one of:
- time: job is time consuming (think monitoring cameras for N hours a day)
- physical: job requires physical work (think sorting boxes in a warehouse or janitorial work)
- skilled: job requires certification/skill (think electrician or engineering)
- social: job requires interacting with humans (think customer support or sales)
Depending on you skillset/preferences select one or two and search for vocations/jobs. Jobs usually have a mix of them (and there are likely some more categories). Jobs always require effort, that's why people are paying for it. If you want to reduce time look for "part time" jobs.
If you are fine with mid-low pay, take a look at jobs in public institutions (Education, Government). They tend to have rather good long term working conditions and are commonly open to people changing careers into public service.
A colleague of mine is developing an internal tool nobody needs in a large IT corporation. Since it's not client facing, there's no rush from project managers. It's dragged on so long that other internal tools have already implemented most of the needed functionality - so there's no good value proposition now. The only argument keeping it alive is sunk cost fallacy. Colleague works minimal required 3 day weeks, spends maybe 2 hours in the office drinking coffee, and tells me how he enjoys life with lots of hikes and outdoor activities.
Defense industry. You get paid reasonably well to work at the pace of your government customers, who are almost never in a hurry.
But you'd essentially be making things to kill people. And those people are often innocent civilians.
"I really don't care about the product I work on. "
Literally the first sub-qualification
In the US, I guess, maybe, depending on the specific defense contractor? I dunno if I'd classify it as the type of low effort OP is looking for.
Also it sounds like OP is in India or China. In China, that is definitely not how defense industry work works. Idk about India.
I can understand you are like this. Just be upfront about it during interviews. You might be surprised there are companies which are absolutely fine with that.
I'm on the other end, I do think your life should revolve around the thing that you are doing 8+ hours a day. I currently have colleagues which are the same like you and it feels I have to pull them through the mud. Just be upfront about it and find a good fit ( I too should find a better fit 8) )
I suppose I am on a similar boat wrt job satisfaction and the direction things have gone and are going in this industry. I am also one step ahead of you, from the sound of it, in a job that doesn't require me to devote my life to it and gives me time for personal projects, gym, and just figuring out shit in life. This is not to boast, but to give you a heads-up: I haven't figured out much of anything just yet, and I am not strictly sure my current position is significantly better than what was before it. Perhaps slightly better, with more time to think, and having somewhat detached myself emotionally from the job. Which is to say, if you can take a break altogether with somebody else supporting you financially, I'd do that and really consider things as an "outsider" to your own life. Also talk to people to get more perspective. Otherwise, I think I concur with the other suggestions given here.
Find a role at a large "non-tech" comapny in a large department on a mid sized team. I had several jobs like that and the amount of effort required in the average day was minimal. Probably less than an hour a day of actual meaningful work. You'll hate your job but it's extremely easy and pays decent.
Entire roles have been created for people to do this, in exchange the headcount makes your manager look more important. In tech alone there exists: product managers, scrum masters, middle managers of all kinds.
If you want to stay in tech, look for roles that can be filled by someone who doesn't know how to build or sell the product. Every business has to deal with supply and demand, the further you are from those things, the more likely the job is bullshit, and not doing it will be unnoticeable.
I had one of these. Comfortable income; not big tech but well over USA median. Remote. Put in 5-15 hours a week.
Strongly recommend against it.
What I would recommend instead is have a hard look at what's causing pain in your current situation. Try and get as concrete as possible. Try going one level deeper from 'world is hyper capitalistic' to what hurts. When I talk to people that express similar views there is usually some other deep hurt that is going unaddressed. ie 'im not being valued for my work', 'I have a deep fear I will not be able to provide or be valued', 'I like tech, but the current structure of tech employers doesnt fit well with me(weird noises in offices are deeply uncomfortable)' etc.
It's almost counterintuitive but 60 hard hours / week at something you enjoy and thrive in will be easier and feel better like 5 hours at something you hate. Most everyone has a desire to feel valued and needed, so look for what that can be for you. Note prestige of impact != internal satisfaction. If you enjoy serving tea, then doing that for little money (and lots of time) will feel better in the long run than doing a few hours of tech work you despise.
Also... strongly recommend tuning out from the internet / news / social media. Sensationalist headlines can obscure our felt experience of life.
Reading between the lines of your post, Im not sure if what you want is a job with low hours or to solve your deep unhappiness? If I told you I had a job that paid well but you would still be happy would you take it?
That's like a dream job for me. I'm going to use the rest of the time to hack on OS kernels instead of losing sleep over it. The thing is, people rarely get to work on what they are passionate about. At least I literally have seen none, after spending so many years in 5+ companies, none of my team is very passionate about the job, which is understandable.
idk… If I had a job where I could put 5 to 15 hours a week and get a pay, I’d fill all my time with something else! (Side projects, sports, etc.)
Agreed. I walked past a high-end fashion store in a major European city recently. The big glass door was locked, with a sign explaining that the shop was open, the door was locked to prevent theft. There was one young woman inside staffing the shop, sitting behind a counter. I envied her, I could happily take minimum wage for a year or so, sitting at a desk all day with very occasional interruption, while I tap at a laptop working on personal projects. Unfortunately I'm not a glamorous 20-something European woman.
Go on disability
That's what I did. Hobbies & Side work. Traveling!
The key is to set boundaries, learn which 5 hours of work are important and manage expectations well. Im convinced you get most of your work done in the first 20 hours of the week and there's diminishing returns after that. Manual labor scales pretty linearly with time. Software development not so much.
This accurately describes many tech jobs outside of FAANG or the startup scene. Lay low, close your tickets, and invest aggressively into the S&P 500. You'll be done in about 12 years. Most you'll need to worry about are fudging annual "goals" that have nothing to do with the actual work.
Really this sounds like apathy and disillusionment with the state of the mainstream, a sentiment i understand perfectly. I would encourage you to consider web contracting for local businesses or communities you're a part of. You'll have to take ownership of what you do and care about it, but consider that will be much easier to do when you actually do value what you're a part of and what you're doing. When it's not making gambling apps, slop generators, or DRM for juice presses, you might be surprised at how your outlook on work changes.
I've been working part-time for two years, works great for me! It's not easy to negotiate—and not with every company—but feasible.
Scrum Master or Project Manager. However, I'd assume in the current market these jobs are not easy to find.
I would aim... Away from the glare of the software world.
There are plenty of smallish companies that just bob along. If you pinch your nose for long enough you quickly become indispensable, and your productivity will rarely be very challenged.
But... Be aware. "Bullshit jobs" can be enjoyed only by the right mind. Most people find them miserable anyway, it doesn't really matter if they are easy, or low effort. (This means also that I disagree with recommending to become Project or Product Manager - when those roles are properly useless... They are also soul crushing, with layers of stress on top)
State schools is what you want. Strict 9-5, no overtime, no expectations, insane bureaucracy that makes everything slow down to a crawl. You can spend years there without doing anything at all.
Literally any job in big tech
This is not my experience whatsoever and someone who works 50+ weeks for big tech. Especially with decreased value for the human element in favor of AI there are now more demands than ever. Engineers have become much more expendable.
50+ weeks? so a year?
I've been in big tech for 12+ years now. The first handful of years are definitely a grind to earn your spot, get a couple promos. After that though, it can become quite a bit easier to coast if that's what you're looking for. People know you, know you're probably valuable cause you're "senior" or "staff" and still here, and likely leave you alone. But yeah, as a newer engineer these days, it still requires the initial commitment to earn the privilege of coasting in a big tech company.
This is what I kept thinking as well. In my experience big companies can't get things done and people fly under the radar all the time not doing anything.
Yup. I've worked for several different big tech companies and the majority of people there did very little and no one really cared.
Government-related jobs.
"Part-time" is the keyword you are looking for. Besides coding, if you want to get into bullshit jobs, become an agile coach, scrum master, product owner, etc...
I feel exactly the same as you my friend.
<3
webcam/drugselling if IT-related, pentesting if the real IT.
You may want to adjust your view of the world if you think making a living wage webcamming or selling drugs doesn't involve hard work.