Price seems to be a pretty big factor, as well as the lack of any charging infrastructure. There’s also the fact that a lot of scooter owning families don’t have dedicated parking spaces in/outside their homes - not even enough to put up a charging point
The other problem is that the pricing for any decent eScooter starts hitting the same price range as a mid-range (for India) bike
The Ola S1 Pro has the same price as Bajaj NS200.
In the Indian context, bikes have way more street appeal. Even a cursory glance would tell you that the Bajaj NS200 looks way cooler than Ola S1.
So at that price range, a consumer essentially has to decide between a cool 150-200cc motorcycle from a trusted manufacturer, or a rather uncool electric scooter from a brand new manufacturer with reports of unreliability, poor charging infrastructure and unknown long term longevity
> same price range as a mid-range (for India) bike
Or a used Maruti Suzuki.
My relatives from small town India all decided to buy 1-2L used cars instead of an EV Bike when upgrading. The issue is consumers are aspirational, and a two-wheeler just isn't viewed as a positive anymore, as DyCM DK Shivakumar crassly pointed out [0]
That said, I am optimistic about the prospect of EV cars in small town India in the next 5-10 years, as the dealerships also function as EV charge points, and distances traveled are much lower so range anxiety isn't as significant.
Tier ? cities like Coimbatore already have great EV penetration compared to the metros. Due to better charging infra, and low 4W penetration. Basically low penetration overall. Of course. Taxis stick to the CNG Dzire, so maruti will always appear really high in market share numbers. And they have the aspirational SUV owner covered too with Ertiga (7 seater for 9L).
Main issue is having a parking space with a charger and/or having to pay for it, and price of the new e-motorcycles.
Charging on the side of the road is a no go with motorcycles. I can fill my tank in a few seconds, I wouldn't want to wait more. Until I had a way to charge in an indoor space the only e-motorcycle I considered was the Silence S02 which has a removable battery that you can move as a trolley luggage. But it is still heavy, if you have stairs to climb which was my case until very recently: game over.
I looked at the market to replace my motorcycle, a 300cc scooter, now that I have an indoor parking space where I could in theory install a charger. Most japanese brands are very timid, honda only produces a 50cc equivalent. BMW and Kawasaki are expensive as is Zero motorcycle. To my knowledge Suzuki or Yamaha do not produce any.The rest are mostly chinese brands and many of them are using pretty much scaled up e-bicycle technology with motor in the hub and more importantly zero reliability/service record. And you pay the price of a 125 to get the performance and size of a 50cc moped.
So basically you have the choice between trusted brands and reliable gas powered bikes or do a leap of faith with no insurance that it won't be a shitshow like the aliexpress/amazon e-bike batteries that randomly catch fire. On paper electric stuff should be more reliable but well maintained 125cc bikes tend to be rock solid.
The reason why there are now quite a lot of these things in India (and all over Asia) is that the challenges you cite are in practice not that big of a deal:
- for most people these things are transportation tools, not toys. Performance doesn't really matter all that much. In a big Indian city, the maximum speed is determined by the highly congested traffic, not the performance of the ebike. Going fast is fun but not that essential.
- Many people primarily charge at home, inside their home if needed or remove the battery and charge that inside.
- Unless you drive more than 40/50km, the charge is generally good enough for a full day. And for more intensive use, there are bikes with bigger batteries. Or you can swap in a spare battery.
- If it's not enough for the day, you can charge anywhere there is a wall socket. Unlike cars, people don't tend to use specialized chargers for ebikes. That's pretty much anywhere. You might have to pay for the privilege in some places. But plug it in during your lunch break or whenever you have a gap and you are good to go probably.
- We're talking about less than half a kwh for most ebikes for a full charge. It's not going to break the bank. Charging is really, really cheap.
- Fuel is not cheap. A large part of Asia is still on incomes where that price difference matters; even though especially India has a rather large middle and upper class as well these days. The cost aspect really matters.
Those cheap bikes you are complaining about: they are really cheap. And they kind of work. That's why people are buying these things by the millions now.
> Main issue is having a parking space with a charger and/or having to pay for it
Agree. New apartments in metros are coming up with shared charging spaces but the supposed cost benefit of owning ev is offset by high prices at these chargers. Also as ev adoption grows, you are only looking at more competition in the future for these limited charging slots. Builders for logistical reasons or out of just pure greed are really not keen on allowing installation of charging points at own parking spots.
This seems to be one of the main challenges to overcome even for those who are willing to adopt an ev vehicle.
I've seen someone in China charge using a cable dangling out a window, so I think charging infrastructure doesn't necessarily have to be an issue if you're willing to settle for the minimum viable option.
Among all these various factors, not once do you mention the wellbeing of other people. It is not hyperbole to observe that combustion scooters are a scourge on the physical health and mental sanity of a billion Indians.
I got to bike around Bhubaneswar, the capital of Odisha, in India in 2017, well before this revolution. When you look at it from an outsider's perspective it looks like chaos and I went in with my typical American mindset, hustling my way through the throngs of bikes, pedestrians, mopeds, autos, dogs, and cows.
Once I fell into the natural flow of the system the experience was much more smooth. There's an organic cadence that reminded me of red blood cells bumping around inside capillaries.
I wonder how the spike in e2W use has affected that cadence.
While I agree, that's a present devil meaning that it's already an accepted way of life. I'm curious how Gogoro's model of swapping batteries would fair in the denser Indian markets.
Once outside Tier 1 cities, density significantly reduces. Additionally, the Indian consumer is aspirational, and if forced to purchase a new vehicle would prefer a used car over a new 2-wheeler.
Anecdotally, in my ancestral village, my relatives preferred buying a used Maruti Suzuki for 1 Lakh (roughly $1k) instead of spending the equivalent amount on a new bike.
In the Vietnamese side of my family, everyone is ignoring the recent diktat to upgrade to electronic motorbikes for the same reason (why spend almost a year's income to purchase a vehicle when inflation for daily staples has been high)
I feel there is an opportunity for EV cars, but they face stiff competition from Kei/900-1100cc cars that cost around $4k-8k.
Probably 1 billion+ people in India have to prioritize their own (and their kids') well being, such as securing shelter, food, clean water, and safe transportation.
It's a luxury to be able to think about others' well being, especially for something with very slow, long term effects. It's a luxury to even be able to think about your own well being for things that have slow, long term effects.
Curious how this impact air pollution? My understanding is that the largest contributor of air pollution in cities is vehicles. And if predominantly the vehicles are cars and 2 wheelers and of that the higher percentage is 2 wheelers and if those are changing from petrol to electric then it should make a dent in pollution. As such air pollution could be a proxy of how e-2w benefit the country…
2 stroke engines on new vehicles were banned in India 20 years ago and there have also been some restrictions on re-registering old 2 stroke vehicles as well
you're not wrong they just solved that part of the problem already
Well let's face it, not on the same level but even four-stroke tend to annoyingly noise, saying this as an owner. A screaming 2 stroke engine is super annoying but the bass of say, a Yamaha T-Max is also super annoying and will transmit accross walls even better. And so many people run noisy aftermarket exhausts.
This is true in the USA where motorcycles are expensive toys. When I visit India, most motorcycles on the road seem to be very quiet in comparison. The constant sound of horns is more annoying than the engine noise.
Yes. This has long being the case. Cities with national monuments used to enforce "only eletrical taxis" rule near the monuments to protect them from pollution and this was successful.
Range is frequently noted as a limitation for these vehicles, which is understandable.
In NYC there's a (somewhat informal) swapping economy where riders exchange their dead battery for a charged one. There are city run programs and under-the-table ones which are cheaper and less guaranteed. This is how people will do 12h DoorDash shifts without stopping to charge.
China's EV-2W sales graph shows a peak in 2021 and then a declining trend in past few years. Curious to know what's happening there. I couldn't find any explanation in the article (admittedly I just skimmed).
I own a vinfast theon S and a daybike quantum s1. Living in Vietnam.
prices were 2.6k usd and 1.9 for the quantum. Ranges are 100km and 250km
I will probably never buy a gas bike again. Ranges are not a problem in the city. They are quiet and fast. And I pay almost nothing to charge them.
If I complain about air quality I at least feel like I need to put money into companies that are actively working on solutions. Especially for small bikes it’s a no-brainer to go electric.
We have an e-assist bicycle, so not quite the same as an e-scooter (moto-style, not kick). But, it's great. It doesn't have a throttle, so no pedal-free mode, but with assist on full setting, it'll go 18mph with very little effort. Great for the 8 mile ride to my wife's office (minimal sweat, she does shower there) and she can turn down the assist on the way home for a cardio workout.
Here in the US, most of the e-scooters (moto-style) are range-limited (battery size/tech) and overpriced (north of $5K) for what you get. Not when a 150cc scooter is <$5000 and will go >100 miles on a ~1 gallon tank.
I've heard from friends who are into electrical vehicles that electrical motorcycles aren't a good option economically, because the gas savings are offset by the cost of battery wear and battery replacement.
A gas powered motorbike in comparison will run for decades without having to do any expensive engine maintenance.
It's the opposite IME, most petrol two-wheelers are massive money sinks past 5 years of ownership. You will likely spend close to original price in maintenance and repairs, with most models developing "unfixable" issues that massively degrade the experience. It doesn't need to be engine related for the costs to add up.
Even if the battery craps out after 5 years (extremely unlikely), it's a wash. That's before considering the fuel savings. Battery degradation is a bit of a meme, we aren't even 10 years into mass adoption of EVs for this to be a common experience.
Price seems to be a pretty big factor, as well as the lack of any charging infrastructure. There’s also the fact that a lot of scooter owning families don’t have dedicated parking spaces in/outside their homes - not even enough to put up a charging point
The other problem is that the pricing for any decent eScooter starts hitting the same price range as a mid-range (for India) bike
The Ola S1 Pro has the same price as Bajaj NS200.
In the Indian context, bikes have way more street appeal. Even a cursory glance would tell you that the Bajaj NS200 looks way cooler than Ola S1.
So at that price range, a consumer essentially has to decide between a cool 150-200cc motorcycle from a trusted manufacturer, or a rather uncool electric scooter from a brand new manufacturer with reports of unreliability, poor charging infrastructure and unknown long term longevity
> same price range as a mid-range (for India) bike
Or a used Maruti Suzuki.
My relatives from small town India all decided to buy 1-2L used cars instead of an EV Bike when upgrading. The issue is consumers are aspirational, and a two-wheeler just isn't viewed as a positive anymore, as DyCM DK Shivakumar crassly pointed out [0]
That said, I am optimistic about the prospect of EV cars in small town India in the next 5-10 years, as the dealerships also function as EV charge points, and distances traveled are much lower so range anxiety isn't as significant.
[0] - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/dk-shivak...
Tier ? cities like Coimbatore already have great EV penetration compared to the metros. Due to better charging infra, and low 4W penetration. Basically low penetration overall. Of course. Taxis stick to the CNG Dzire, so maruti will always appear really high in market share numbers. And they have the aspirational SUV owner covered too with Ertiga (7 seater for 9L).
Main issue is having a parking space with a charger and/or having to pay for it, and price of the new e-motorcycles.
Charging on the side of the road is a no go with motorcycles. I can fill my tank in a few seconds, I wouldn't want to wait more. Until I had a way to charge in an indoor space the only e-motorcycle I considered was the Silence S02 which has a removable battery that you can move as a trolley luggage. But it is still heavy, if you have stairs to climb which was my case until very recently: game over.
I looked at the market to replace my motorcycle, a 300cc scooter, now that I have an indoor parking space where I could in theory install a charger. Most japanese brands are very timid, honda only produces a 50cc equivalent. BMW and Kawasaki are expensive as is Zero motorcycle. To my knowledge Suzuki or Yamaha do not produce any.The rest are mostly chinese brands and many of them are using pretty much scaled up e-bicycle technology with motor in the hub and more importantly zero reliability/service record. And you pay the price of a 125 to get the performance and size of a 50cc moped.
So basically you have the choice between trusted brands and reliable gas powered bikes or do a leap of faith with no insurance that it won't be a shitshow like the aliexpress/amazon e-bike batteries that randomly catch fire. On paper electric stuff should be more reliable but well maintained 125cc bikes tend to be rock solid.
The reason why there are now quite a lot of these things in India (and all over Asia) is that the challenges you cite are in practice not that big of a deal:
- for most people these things are transportation tools, not toys. Performance doesn't really matter all that much. In a big Indian city, the maximum speed is determined by the highly congested traffic, not the performance of the ebike. Going fast is fun but not that essential.
- Many people primarily charge at home, inside their home if needed or remove the battery and charge that inside.
- Unless you drive more than 40/50km, the charge is generally good enough for a full day. And for more intensive use, there are bikes with bigger batteries. Or you can swap in a spare battery.
- If it's not enough for the day, you can charge anywhere there is a wall socket. Unlike cars, people don't tend to use specialized chargers for ebikes. That's pretty much anywhere. You might have to pay for the privilege in some places. But plug it in during your lunch break or whenever you have a gap and you are good to go probably.
- We're talking about less than half a kwh for most ebikes for a full charge. It's not going to break the bank. Charging is really, really cheap.
- Fuel is not cheap. A large part of Asia is still on incomes where that price difference matters; even though especially India has a rather large middle and upper class as well these days. The cost aspect really matters.
Those cheap bikes you are complaining about: they are really cheap. And they kind of work. That's why people are buying these things by the millions now.
> Main issue is having a parking space with a charger and/or having to pay for it
Agree. New apartments in metros are coming up with shared charging spaces but the supposed cost benefit of owning ev is offset by high prices at these chargers. Also as ev adoption grows, you are only looking at more competition in the future for these limited charging slots. Builders for logistical reasons or out of just pure greed are really not keen on allowing installation of charging points at own parking spots.
This seems to be one of the main challenges to overcome even for those who are willing to adopt an ev vehicle.
I've seen someone in China charge using a cable dangling out a window, so I think charging infrastructure doesn't necessarily have to be an issue if you're willing to settle for the minimum viable option.
Among all these various factors, not once do you mention the wellbeing of other people. It is not hyperbole to observe that combustion scooters are a scourge on the physical health and mental sanity of a billion Indians.
I got to bike around Bhubaneswar, the capital of Odisha, in India in 2017, well before this revolution. When you look at it from an outsider's perspective it looks like chaos and I went in with my typical American mindset, hustling my way through the throngs of bikes, pedestrians, mopeds, autos, dogs, and cows.
Once I fell into the natural flow of the system the experience was much more smooth. There's an organic cadence that reminded me of red blood cells bumping around inside capillaries.
I wonder how the spike in e2W use has affected that cadence.
While I agree, that's a present devil meaning that it's already an accepted way of life. I'm curious how Gogoro's model of swapping batteries would fair in the denser Indian markets.
Depends region to region.
Once outside Tier 1 cities, density significantly reduces. Additionally, the Indian consumer is aspirational, and if forced to purchase a new vehicle would prefer a used car over a new 2-wheeler.
Anecdotally, in my ancestral village, my relatives preferred buying a used Maruti Suzuki for 1 Lakh (roughly $1k) instead of spending the equivalent amount on a new bike.
In the Vietnamese side of my family, everyone is ignoring the recent diktat to upgrade to electronic motorbikes for the same reason (why spend almost a year's income to purchase a vehicle when inflation for daily staples has been high)
I feel there is an opportunity for EV cars, but they face stiff competition from Kei/900-1100cc cars that cost around $4k-8k.
Sadly the wellbeing of other people is rarely a factor people take into account.
Probably 1 billion+ people in India have to prioritize their own (and their kids') well being, such as securing shelter, food, clean water, and safe transportation.
It's a luxury to be able to think about others' well being, especially for something with very slow, long term effects. It's a luxury to even be able to think about your own well being for things that have slow, long term effects.
Curious how this impact air pollution? My understanding is that the largest contributor of air pollution in cities is vehicles. And if predominantly the vehicles are cars and 2 wheelers and of that the higher percentage is 2 wheelers and if those are changing from petrol to electric then it should make a dent in pollution. As such air pollution could be a proxy of how e-2w benefit the country…
Not only air pollution - if I think about the two-stroke engines that typically power cheap two-wheel vehicles, noise pollution also comes to mind...
2 stroke engines on new vehicles were banned in India 20 years ago and there have also been some restrictions on re-registering old 2 stroke vehicles as well
you're not wrong they just solved that part of the problem already
Even the smallest motorcycles are four-stroke, unless we're talking about hobbyist stuff like dirt bikes.
Well let's face it, not on the same level but even four-stroke tend to annoyingly noise, saying this as an owner. A screaming 2 stroke engine is super annoying but the bass of say, a Yamaha T-Max is also super annoying and will transmit accross walls even better. And so many people run noisy aftermarket exhausts.
This is true in the USA where motorcycles are expensive toys. When I visit India, most motorcycles on the road seem to be very quiet in comparison. The constant sound of horns is more annoying than the engine noise.
Yes. This has long being the case. Cities with national monuments used to enforce "only eletrical taxis" rule near the monuments to protect them from pollution and this was successful.
I imagine if the 2-wheelers have those awful 2-cycle engines this would be a slam dunk
Range is frequently noted as a limitation for these vehicles, which is understandable.
In NYC there's a (somewhat informal) swapping economy where riders exchange their dead battery for a charged one. There are city run programs and under-the-table ones which are cheaper and less guaranteed. This is how people will do 12h DoorDash shifts without stopping to charge.
I think it's a pretty interesting idea.
Do you know where I can read more about the battery swapping program? I knew china had some sort of program for EVs but this is news to me.
These[1] are the "official" ones which are actually just in the midst of rollout.
The informal ones don't seem to have much web presence, IIRC they were mostly setup in and around the e-bike shops in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn.
Running the same setup with EVs is a fascinating angle!
[1] https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2025/install-public-e-bi...
FWIW Taiwan has had an e-scooter battery swap system for a decade; Gogoro
Honda and few other have launched swapable battery vehicles in India too
Gogoro might be useful
China's EV-2W sales graph shows a peak in 2021 and then a declining trend in past few years. Curious to know what's happening there. I couldn't find any explanation in the article (admittedly I just skimmed).
Might have been the bike share bubble? Asianometry - China's Bonkers Bike-share Bubble https://youtu.be/FQrEDq8KPiU and China Observer - bike graveyard https://youtu.be/49xQ2sTkjwM
During: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2020/07/4-big-bike-sharing-t...
After: https://www.news8000.com/lifestyle/money/china-s-bike-sharin...
My theory: China became richer and more developed. So:
(1) Public transport became better and some people shifted to it
(2) Some people upgraded to cars
Anybody own an electric Two-Wheeler ? What has your experience been ? Pros and Cons ?
I own a vinfast theon S and a daybike quantum s1. Living in Vietnam.
prices were 2.6k usd and 1.9 for the quantum. Ranges are 100km and 250km
I will probably never buy a gas bike again. Ranges are not a problem in the city. They are quiet and fast. And I pay almost nothing to charge them.
If I complain about air quality I at least feel like I need to put money into companies that are actively working on solutions. Especially for small bikes it’s a no-brainer to go electric.
We have an e-assist bicycle, so not quite the same as an e-scooter (moto-style, not kick). But, it's great. It doesn't have a throttle, so no pedal-free mode, but with assist on full setting, it'll go 18mph with very little effort. Great for the 8 mile ride to my wife's office (minimal sweat, she does shower there) and she can turn down the assist on the way home for a cardio workout.
Here in the US, most of the e-scooters (moto-style) are range-limited (battery size/tech) and overpriced (north of $5K) for what you get. Not when a 150cc scooter is <$5000 and will go >100 miles on a ~1 gallon tank.
Yep. Bought first one in 2019. Hero electric. Unon-registration one. Brilliant.
In 2023 bought one cheap lead acid battery one for ₹40k. Best cheap decision ever. Takes me around the city. Replaced batteries last month for ₹13k.
I went with cheap ones because they are Low tech. Its simpler to service. Simpler to fix and diy.
My daily run is around 10km so i don't care for anything mileage. In cities, its perfect, even the heavy duty tech loaded ones.
model name?
I've heard from friends who are into electrical vehicles that electrical motorcycles aren't a good option economically, because the gas savings are offset by the cost of battery wear and battery replacement.
A gas powered motorbike in comparison will run for decades without having to do any expensive engine maintenance.
It's the opposite IME, most petrol two-wheelers are massive money sinks past 5 years of ownership. You will likely spend close to original price in maintenance and repairs, with most models developing "unfixable" issues that massively degrade the experience. It doesn't need to be engine related for the costs to add up.
Even if the battery craps out after 5 years (extremely unlikely), it's a wash. That's before considering the fuel savings. Battery degradation is a bit of a meme, we aren't even 10 years into mass adoption of EVs for this to be a common experience.
Yes the burden of the fuel price is much less on a vehicle that sip less than 3L/km