I encourage everyone thinking about commenting to read the article first.
When I finally read it, I found it remarkably balanced. It cites positives and negatives, all of which agree with my experience.
> Con: AI poses a grave threat to students' cognitive development
> When kids use generative AI that tells them what the answer is … they are not thinking for themselves. They're not learning to parse truth from fiction.
None of this is controverisal. It happens without AI, too, with kids blindly copying what the teacher tells them. Impossible to disagree, though.
> Con: AI poses serious threats to social and emotional development
Yep. Just like non-AI use of social media.
> Schooling itself could be less focused on what the report calls "transactional task completion" or a grade-based endgame and more focused on fostering curiosity and a desire to learn
No sh*t. This has probably been a recommendation for decades. How could you argue against it, though?
> AI designed for use by children and teens should be less sycophantic and more "antagonistic," pushing back against preconceived notions and challenging users to reflect and evaluate.
Genius. I love this idea.
===
ETA:
I believe that explicitly teaching students how to use AI in their learning process, that the beautiful paper direct from AI is not something that will help them later, is another important ingredient. Right now we are in a time of transition, and even students who want to be successful are uncertain of what academic success will look like in 5 years, what skills will be valuable, etc.
>>> Schooling itself could be less focused on what the report calls "transactional task completion" or a grade-based endgame and more focused on fostering curiosity and a desire to learn
>> How could you argue against it, though?
because large scale society does use and deploy rote training with grading and uniformity, to sift and sort for talent of different kinds (classical music, competitive sports, some maths) on a societal scale. Further, training individuals to play a routine specialized role is essential for large scale industrial and government growth.
Individualist world views are shocked and dismayed.. repeatedly, because this does not diminish, it has grown. All of the major economies of the modern world do this with students on a large scale. Theorists and critics would be foolish to ignore this, or spin wishful thinking scenarios opposed to this. My thesis here is that all large scale societies will continue on this road, and in fact it is part of "competitiveness" from industrial and some political points of view.
The balance point of individual development and role based training will have to evolve; indeed it will evolve.. but with that extremes? and among whom?
I have two kids (sophmore in HS and a middle schooler) and in both their individual studies and when I'm helping them with homework we use AI pretty extensively now.
The one off stuff is mostly taking a picture of a math problem and asking it to walk step by step through the process. In particular this has been helpful to me as the processes and techniques have changed.
It's been useful in foreign languages as well to rapidly check work, and make corrections.
On the generative side it's fantastic for things like: give me 3 more math problems similar to this one or for generating worksheets and study guides.
As far as technological adoption goes, it's 100% that every kid knows what ChatGPT is (even maybe more than just "AI" in general). There's some very mixed feelings from the kids with it: my middle schooler was pretty creeped out by the ChatGPT voice interface for example.
Doesn't matter. Every time some maniac invents some, we all need to scramble to adopt it. This is what _progress_ is. Is there's a new technology, we don't think about the consequences. We all just adopt it and use it so thoroughly that we cannot imagine living without it.
Calm down, what actually happens is there is a reaction to new technology and then once its been used there is a counter reaction which takes into account what works and what dosent.
Is there a previous decade you'd prefer to return too for quality of life? Why?
The big issue I’ve faced and seen others face is the use of LLMs induced skill atrophy.
For studying, LLMs feel Like using a robot to lift weights for you at gym.
——
If people used to get cardio as a side effect of having to walk everywhere, and we were forced to think as a side effect of having to actually do the homework, then are LLMs ushering in an era of cognitive ill health ?
For what it’s worth, I spend quite a bit of effort to understand how people are using LLMs, especially non-tech people.
Bloom's paradox is well known and proven in education.
AI is the first thing that can positively personalize education and instruction and provide support to instructors.
The authors seem of limited technical literacy to know that you can just train and focus only on textbooks, instead of their explorations using general models and the pitfalls that they have. Not knowing this key difference affects some of the points being made.
The intersection of having a take on technology needs some semblance of digital and technical literacy involved in the paper to help acknowledge or navigate it, or it become a potential blind spot.
It takes legitimate concerns and ironically explores them in average ways, much like an llm returns average text for vague or incomplete questions.
This is absolutely not an objective review. The person who wrote this is a very particular type of person who Alpha School appeals strongly towards. I'm not saying anything in particular is wrong with the review, but calling it unbiased is incorrect.
Calling the Alpha school "AI" or even "AI to aid learning" is a massive stretch. I've read that article and nothing in there says AI to me. Data collection and on-demand computer-based instruction, sure.
I don't disagree with your premise, but I don't think that article backs it up at all.
Imagine a tutor that stays with you as long as you need for every concept of math, instead of the class moving on without you and that compounding over years.
Rather than 1 teacher for 30 students, 1 teacher can scale to 30 students to better address Bloom's 2 sigma problem, which discovered students in a 1:2 ratio with a tutor full time ended up in the 98% of students reliably.
LLMs are capable of delivering this outright, or providing serious inroads to it for those capable and willing to do the work beyond going through the motions.
I encourage everyone thinking about commenting to read the article first.
When I finally read it, I found it remarkably balanced. It cites positives and negatives, all of which agree with my experience.
> Con: AI poses a grave threat to students' cognitive development
> When kids use generative AI that tells them what the answer is … they are not thinking for themselves. They're not learning to parse truth from fiction.
None of this is controverisal. It happens without AI, too, with kids blindly copying what the teacher tells them. Impossible to disagree, though.
> Con: AI poses serious threats to social and emotional development
Yep. Just like non-AI use of social media.
> Schooling itself could be less focused on what the report calls "transactional task completion" or a grade-based endgame and more focused on fostering curiosity and a desire to learn
No sh*t. This has probably been a recommendation for decades. How could you argue against it, though?
> AI designed for use by children and teens should be less sycophantic and more "antagonistic," pushing back against preconceived notions and challenging users to reflect and evaluate.
Genius. I love this idea.
=== ETA:
I believe that explicitly teaching students how to use AI in their learning process, that the beautiful paper direct from AI is not something that will help them later, is another important ingredient. Right now we are in a time of transition, and even students who want to be successful are uncertain of what academic success will look like in 5 years, what skills will be valuable, etc.
>>> Schooling itself could be less focused on what the report calls "transactional task completion" or a grade-based endgame and more focused on fostering curiosity and a desire to learn >> How could you argue against it, though?
because large scale society does use and deploy rote training with grading and uniformity, to sift and sort for talent of different kinds (classical music, competitive sports, some maths) on a societal scale. Further, training individuals to play a routine specialized role is essential for large scale industrial and government growth.
Individualist world views are shocked and dismayed.. repeatedly, because this does not diminish, it has grown. All of the major economies of the modern world do this with students on a large scale. Theorists and critics would be foolish to ignore this, or spin wishful thinking scenarios opposed to this. My thesis here is that all large scale societies will continue on this road, and in fact it is part of "competitiveness" from industrial and some political points of view.
The balance point of individual development and role based training will have to evolve; indeed it will evolve.. but with that extremes? and among whom?
I have two kids (sophmore in HS and a middle schooler) and in both their individual studies and when I'm helping them with homework we use AI pretty extensively now.
The one off stuff is mostly taking a picture of a math problem and asking it to walk step by step through the process. In particular this has been helpful to me as the processes and techniques have changed.
It's been useful in foreign languages as well to rapidly check work, and make corrections.
On the generative side it's fantastic for things like: give me 3 more math problems similar to this one or for generating worksheets and study guides.
As far as technological adoption goes, it's 100% that every kid knows what ChatGPT is (even maybe more than just "AI" in general). There's some very mixed feelings from the kids with it: my middle schooler was pretty creeped out by the ChatGPT voice interface for example.
I fundamentally disagree with the policy of the US administration, as expressed by the Secretary of Education.
A1 should not be in every classroom.
Furthermore any books or teaching that does not feature medium rare as the correct cooking of a steak should be banned (and burned to well done).
Doesn't matter. Every time some maniac invents some, we all need to scramble to adopt it. This is what _progress_ is. Is there's a new technology, we don't think about the consequences. We all just adopt it and use it so thoroughly that we cannot imagine living without it.
I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you're actually serious.
Calm down, what actually happens is there is a reaction to new technology and then once its been used there is a counter reaction which takes into account what works and what dosent.
Is there a previous decade you'd prefer to return too for quality of life? Why?
The 1990s surely
The big issue I’ve faced and seen others face is the use of LLMs induced skill atrophy.
For studying, LLMs feel Like using a robot to lift weights for you at gym.
——
If people used to get cardio as a side effect of having to walk everywhere, and we were forced to think as a side effect of having to actually do the homework, then are LLMs ushering in an era of cognitive ill health ?
For what it’s worth, I spend quite a bit of effort to understand how people are using LLMs, especially non-tech people.
This is kind of odd.
Bloom's paradox is well known and proven in education.
AI is the first thing that can positively personalize education and instruction and provide support to instructors.
The authors seem of limited technical literacy to know that you can just train and focus only on textbooks, instead of their explorations using general models and the pitfalls that they have. Not knowing this key difference affects some of the points being made.
The intersection of having a take on technology needs some semblance of digital and technical literacy involved in the paper to help acknowledge or navigate it, or it become a potential blind spot.
It takes legitimate concerns and ironically explores them in average ways, much like an llm returns average text for vague or incomplete questions.
Nonsense
There will however be a gigantic gulf between kids who use AI to learn vs those who use AI to aid learning
Objective review of Alpha school in Austin:
https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/your-review-alpha-school
> There will however be a gigantic gulf between kids who use AI to learn vs those who use AI to aid learning
yeah, but not the way you are thinking
you think the rich are going to abolish a traditional education for their kids and dump them in front of a prompt text box for 8 years
that'll just be for the poor and (formerly) middle-class kids
This is absolutely not an objective review. The person who wrote this is a very particular type of person who Alpha School appeals strongly towards. I'm not saying anything in particular is wrong with the review, but calling it unbiased is incorrect.
Calling the Alpha school "AI" or even "AI to aid learning" is a massive stretch. I've read that article and nothing in there says AI to me. Data collection and on-demand computer-based instruction, sure.
I don't disagree with your premise, but I don't think that article backs it up at all.
What is the distinction between using "AI to learn" and using "AI to aid learning?"
Imagine a tutor that stays with you as long as you need for every concept of math, instead of the class moving on without you and that compounding over years.
Rather than 1 teacher for 30 students, 1 teacher can scale to 30 students to better address Bloom's 2 sigma problem, which discovered students in a 1:2 ratio with a tutor full time ended up in the 98% of students reliably.
LLMs are capable of delivering this outright, or providing serious inroads to it for those capable and willing to do the work beyond going through the motions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom's_2_sigma_problem (1984)
I don't think this answers the question in the comment you're replying to.