> For over 30 years, Vim has been "Charityware," supporting children in Kibaale, Uganda. Following the passing of Bram Moolenaar, the ICCF Holland foundation was dissolved […] and its remaining funds were transferred to ensure continued support for the Kibaale project. […] Vim remains Charityware. We encourage users to continue supporting the needy children in Uganda through this new transition.
I settled on vim for its technical merits but Bram using his goodwill to fund a charity like this for so long always made me feel good about my choice.
I'm glad to see that Vim9 continues to make progress. The center of gravity may have shifted somewhat towards Neovim, but the Neovim ecosystem currently seems targeted towards people who want something more IDE-like.
One question is: will more plugin authors move to Vim9Script? It seems that Neovim users have generally moved towards Lua-based plugins, so there's less of a motivation to produce plugins that support both Neovim and Vim9.
> That said I'd have preferred something other than Lua if I had the choice.
Same. I know we as a community would never agree on what that language should be, but in my dreams it would have been ruby. Even javascript would have been better for me than Lua.
Lua, especially with LuaJIT, is nearly as fast as C. I certainly don't want to have to run a slow language like Ruby or especially a full blown JS runtime like V8 just to run Vim, the entire point is speed and keyboard ergonomics, otherwise just use VSCode.
Because I know javascript a lot more than I know Lua (and I suspect given js popularity, a lot of people are in the same boat). Yes Lua is easy to learn, but it's still different enough that there is friction. The differences also aren't just syntactically, it's also libraries/APIs, and more. I also don't have any need/use for Lua beyond neovim, so it's basically having to learn a language specifically for one tool. It's not ideal for me.
But the people who did the work wanted Lua, and I have no problem with that. That's their privilege as the people doing the work. I'm still free to fork it and make ruby or js or whatever (Elixir would be awesome!) first-class.
i’ve written probably north of a million lines of production js, maybe around 100,000 lines of production ruby, and about 300 lines of production lua. lua is a fun language and i think a much better fit than JS for technical reasons (who has a js engine that is both fast and embeds well? nobody), but i am certainly more productive in those other languages where i have more experience.
Why would they do that? When I started learning VIM more than 20 years ago, one of the main reason was that it (or vi) was already present and installed in every possible Linux system.
If the thread was deleted by a mod or flagged in the time between starting a comment and hitting "reply", you'd see a message that "you're not allowed to post a comment here" or similar language. Nothing to do with you, it's the state of the thread you're commenting on.
This is the perennial argument that IMHO is based on a fallacy. If the vim people suddenly stopped working on vim, it doesn't mean all their effort would go to neovim. People work on what they want to work on in open source. Also the two projects have very different goals/philosophies. The code bases have also gotten pretty different in architecture because neovim did a monstrous refactor. It's open source working as intended that we have both.
One little thought is, has there been much drama between the vim and neovim communities? (I guess community can be defined broadly enough that the answer to that question is always “yes,” but I haven’t seen much). They both seem completely happy to just do their own thing. I think the perennial argument just exits in the mind of some fans.
It is nice to see a pair of projects with so much potential for competition coexisting peacefully. Plenty of room on the internet I guess.
Technically, Neovim started because the author wanted to add multi-threading to Vim but the patch was rejected. So they did try to contribuir to Vim first.
Not that I agree with your parent comment or anything (I don’t), I use Helix so don’t really have a dog in this fight, I think it’s fine for them all to coexist.
But they're separate highly maintained projects, and there will always be tradeoffs. It's like saying that Ubuntu is better than Debian, or that Fedora is better than RockyLinux.
> For over 30 years, Vim has been "Charityware," supporting children in Kibaale, Uganda. Following the passing of Bram Moolenaar, the ICCF Holland foundation was dissolved […] and its remaining funds were transferred to ensure continued support for the Kibaale project. […] Vim remains Charityware. We encourage users to continue supporting the needy children in Uganda through this new transition.
I settled on vim for its technical merits but Bram using his goodwill to fund a charity like this for so long always made me feel good about my choice.
But where are the AI features?? Gonna get left behind!
Only joking of course, actually quite refreshing to see a new version announcement of something this major without any AI nonsense.
I'm glad to see that Vim9 continues to make progress. The center of gravity may have shifted somewhat towards Neovim, but the Neovim ecosystem currently seems targeted towards people who want something more IDE-like.
One question is: will more plugin authors move to Vim9Script? It seems that Neovim users have generally moved towards Lua-based plugins, so there's less of a motivation to produce plugins that support both Neovim and Vim9.
I'm not the target for your question (I distribute 0 plugins).
But Lua support in Neovim is the primary reason I moved over from Emacs. Elisp and Vim are both so heart sink for me.
That said I'd have preferred something other than Lua if I had the choice.
> That said I'd have preferred something other than Lua if I had the choice.
Same. I know we as a community would never agree on what that language should be, but in my dreams it would have been ruby. Even javascript would have been better for me than Lua.
Lua, especially with LuaJIT, is nearly as fast as C. I certainly don't want to have to run a slow language like Ruby or especially a full blown JS runtime like V8 just to run Vim, the entire point is speed and keyboard ergonomics, otherwise just use VSCode.
> Even javascript would have been better for me than Lua.
Why?
Because I know javascript a lot more than I know Lua (and I suspect given js popularity, a lot of people are in the same boat). Yes Lua is easy to learn, but it's still different enough that there is friction. The differences also aren't just syntactically, it's also libraries/APIs, and more. I also don't have any need/use for Lua beyond neovim, so it's basically having to learn a language specifically for one tool. It's not ideal for me.
But the people who did the work wanted Lua, and I have no problem with that. That's their privilege as the people doing the work. I'm still free to fork it and make ruby or js or whatever (Elixir would be awesome!) first-class.
i’ve written probably north of a million lines of production js, maybe around 100,000 lines of production ruby, and about 300 lines of production lua. lua is a fun language and i think a much better fit than JS for technical reasons (who has a js engine that is both fast and embeds well? nobody), but i am certainly more productive in those other languages where i have more experience.
I wish they supported Janet
Can you run Fennel in Neovim? It's a Lisp running on Lua. https://fennel-lang.org/
Strange that there's no v9.2 tag in https://github.com/vim/vim/tags.
The relevant release commit is, https://github.com/vim/vim/commit/e7e21018fc0b60c153c8e668f6... (at time of writing, two hours ago).
It seems they didn't publish the tag yet though.
Delighted to see vim continuing.
Congratulations!
>Full support for the Wayland UI
I really hope they never deprecate X11 support :) I doubt they will, but if they do, it will leave the BSDs without a good alternative.
Why would they do that? When I started learning VIM more than 20 years ago, one of the main reason was that it (or vi) was already present and installed in every possible Linux system.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the problem, Wayland is available on FreeBSD.
https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/wayland
Some people hate wayland.
Those people can contribute to Xorg server further development.
The thing that kicked off this thread was hope that vim will continue to support X11. No need for continued X development really.
But surely not every BSD user?
Not every BSD user, but the one you're responding to is most likely in that camp.
> Vim now adheres to the XDG Base Directory Specification,
cool
Ignore my comment, testing whether I'm blocked
Hey man, you’re not blocked. Read you loud and clear. Happy Valentine’s Day to you and yours.
In case you're wondering: I'm not blocked in this thread, but I was blocked in a thread about ICE. I told them to thaw out.
If the thread was deleted by a mod or flagged in the time between starting a comment and hitting "reply", you'd see a message that "you're not allowed to post a comment here" or similar language. Nothing to do with you, it's the state of the thread you're commenting on.
Should stop and help with neovim
This is the perennial argument that IMHO is based on a fallacy. If the vim people suddenly stopped working on vim, it doesn't mean all their effort would go to neovim. People work on what they want to work on in open source. Also the two projects have very different goals/philosophies. The code bases have also gotten pretty different in architecture because neovim did a monstrous refactor. It's open source working as intended that we have both.
I agree with you.
One little thought is, has there been much drama between the vim and neovim communities? (I guess community can be defined broadly enough that the answer to that question is always “yes,” but I haven’t seen much). They both seem completely happy to just do their own thing. I think the perennial argument just exits in the mind of some fans.
It is nice to see a pair of projects with so much potential for competition coexisting peacefully. Plenty of room on the internet I guess.
Could say the same thing about people working on neovim
Technically, Neovim started because the author wanted to add multi-threading to Vim but the patch was rejected. So they did try to contribuir to Vim first.
Not that I agree with your parent comment or anything (I don’t), I use Helix so don’t really have a dog in this fight, I think it’s fine for them all to coexist.
NeoVim has a fundamentally better architecture and healthier ecosystem.
But they're separate highly maintained projects, and there will always be tradeoffs. It's like saying that Ubuntu is better than Debian, or that Fedora is better than RockyLinux.
Honestly curious, what are the tradeoffs with vim9 / vimscript?