There is absolutely no reason for this cars to be available in Europe. The demand is so extremly low, that you couldn't even call it a niche in a niche. If there would be a market and demand, car importers would already have created a foothold for this cars in Europe. It's like arguing, no one buys surfboards in central sahara because of hostile regulations.
Might be road design. I think european roads are generally narrower than US roads which have 12' wide lanes. I remember the F-150 raptor was > 7' wide (without mirrors).
Yeah, it's pretty normal with automotive regulation to promote whatever domestic manufacturers make over imports. In the US, EPA regulations so heavily favored domestic trucks that that PT Cruiser was somewhat famously classified as a truck.
The trend is that roads are becoming more dangerous in the US, with the cars being bigger as a major contributor.
People in US are fine with increasing casualties for some reason, and I’m glad that in EU the general consensus is to continue with keeping roads safer.
It's disgusting that they were ever allowed in the first place. Cars have extremely high externalities, the bare minimum is that people pay for them.
An EU directive implementing vehicle tax proportional to weight is urgent. Heavier cars pollute more, damage the road more, are much more dangerous for pedestrians and bicycles.
The loophole is to classify them as “light” commercial vehicles.
I’m fine with that if US regulation was consistent with that commercial classification and they required a CDL to drive (and all the associated annual medical checks and zero BAC etc.)
If that consistency was there every manufacturer would immediately drop the commercial classification and figure out how to make their trucks satisfy the passenger classification in FMVSS.
If we cared about reducing road casualties, then objectively speaking, we should ban bikes. Roads are designed for cars (people in protective metal boxes with hundreds of sophisticated safety features).
Roads were never intended for people on flimsy two wheeled contraptions with nothing more than a polystyrene cap to protect them.
Seems about 5x as many pedestrians die on the roads than cyclists, so by that logic pedestrians are banned from roads too? No more pedestrian accessible roadside shops?
What's the point of these things? They're not useful for anything. They're horrible to drive, get through fuel like a burning oil well, can't tow, and can't carry anything.
If you need something to haul building materials around, get a van.
I am a landscaper and would absolutely not be able to do my job without a large truck. I agree that for most cases a truck is not needed, but some jobs simply require their use.
One of the downsides to using a van for these heavy duty use cases (speaking from experience) is that they're typically not equipped with powerful enough engines. So you end up straining the engine when towing heavy loads, which reduces the life of it considerably.
Also for a lot of vehicles, a GVM/GCM upgrade is needed to be able to tow certain loads.
Not defending these large american trucks. I think there are valid use cases for them (in smaller bodies), but the majority of the ones I see driving around are just for peoples pleasure and not utility.
Freedoms are removed either way. I'd rather have everyone be _free_ to participate in traffic on safer, more observable streets, where air quality, maneuverability and parking space is decreased only for a good reason, than have a small minority who like the arms race or "bigger and meaner = better for my ego" cars be free to buy (and normalize) such cars (regardless of the car maker's nationality). And I'd bet that's the real reason others cheer this on, too, not what you chose to assume in this unnecessarily inflammatory comment. The easiest way to feel better about oneself is to make up negative assumptions about others. Introspection time
You are a European who drives an EV, so you might not be intimately familiar with just how absurdly large these trucks are. I was recently driving and pulled up at a red light next to one; the top of the hood neatly lined with with the top of the hair of a woman crossing the street directly in front of it. If it had been someone short or a child, the truck driver might have literally been incapable of seeing them.
These things are tolerable on American suburban roads, which are sized generously with even more generous parking. They're an utter disaster for pedestrians because their front profile is more "brick wall" than "gentle slope." It would be fine if they were driven slowly, but the machismo that leads people to buy them also means that they are all absurdly quick.
There is absolutely no reason for this cars to be available in Europe. The demand is so extremly low, that you couldn't even call it a niche in a niche. If there would be a market and demand, car importers would already have created a foothold for this cars in Europe. It's like arguing, no one buys surfboards in central sahara because of hostile regulations.
I will take a wild risk here and say that… it’s probably by design.
Might be road design. I think european roads are generally narrower than US roads which have 12' wide lanes. I remember the F-150 raptor was > 7' wide (without mirrors).
Yeah, it's pretty normal with automotive regulation to promote whatever domestic manufacturers make over imports. In the US, EPA regulations so heavily favored domestic trucks that that PT Cruiser was somewhat famously classified as a truck.
It is not only about domestic manufacturing.
The trend is that roads are becoming more dangerous in the US, with the cars being bigger as a major contributor.
People in US are fine with increasing casualties for some reason, and I’m glad that in EU the general consensus is to continue with keeping roads safer.
Our UK roads are not designed for oversized pickups.
7000 sales per year, come on. They are too big and unpractical for Europe.
It's disgusting that they were ever allowed in the first place. Cars have extremely high externalities, the bare minimum is that people pay for them.
An EU directive implementing vehicle tax proportional to weight is urgent. Heavier cars pollute more, damage the road more, are much more dangerous for pedestrians and bicycles.
US: Makes personal city trucks larger to skirt US regulations
EU: Bans those trucks because they were created skirting regulations to the extreme
The trucks are fully conformant w/ EPA & FMVSS regs.
That you don't like how those have been implemented isn't the fault of a manufacturer.
The loophole is to classify them as “light” commercial vehicles.
I’m fine with that if US regulation was consistent with that commercial classification and they required a CDL to drive (and all the associated annual medical checks and zero BAC etc.)
If that consistency was there every manufacturer would immediately drop the commercial classification and figure out how to make their trucks satisfy the passenger classification in FMVSS.
If we cared about reducing road casualties, then objectively speaking, we should ban bikes. Roads are designed for cars (people in protective metal boxes with hundreds of sophisticated safety features).
Roads were never intended for people on flimsy two wheeled contraptions with nothing more than a polystyrene cap to protect them.
Seems about 5x as many pedestrians die on the roads than cyclists, so by that logic pedestrians are banned from roads too? No more pedestrian accessible roadside shops?
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-pedestrians-and-cycli...
And nothing of value was lost.
What's the point of these things? They're not useful for anything. They're horrible to drive, get through fuel like a burning oil well, can't tow, and can't carry anything.
If you need something to haul building materials around, get a van.
Ever try to hose out the back of a van after you've carried a 1/2 ton of manure in it? Or, say, a carcass or two from a feedlot?
In the US, a sizeable % of pickups are equipped w/ dump &&|| stake beds for precisely this type of work.
I am a landscaper and would absolutely not be able to do my job without a large truck. I agree that for most cases a truck is not needed, but some jobs simply require their use.
I see plenty of landscapers in Ireland with utility vans. What’s wrong with those?
(I’m not a landscaper, but they seem to pack in everything from hand tools to those petrol powered tiller & compacting tools)
Can't tow and can't carry anything, "get a van". Yeah, vans are known for their amazing tow capacity.
It's what all the builders round here use. Full-size Ford Transit and if they need to carry more than about three tonnes, a trailer on the back.
One of the downsides to using a van for these heavy duty use cases (speaking from experience) is that they're typically not equipped with powerful enough engines. So you end up straining the engine when towing heavy loads, which reduces the life of it considerably.
Also for a lot of vehicles, a GVM/GCM upgrade is needed to be able to tow certain loads.
Not defending these large american trucks. I think there are valid use cases for them (in smaller bodies), but the majority of the ones I see driving around are just for peoples pleasure and not utility.
Not only the engine, but also the transmissions and suspensions on commercial vans in the US aren't rated for duty past a certain gross weight.
Well, not really. The biggest size Transits have a 2.4 or 3.2 litre diesel which will pull hell up a high wall.
Compare that to these pickups which have neither the power nor the grip to get out of their own way.
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Freedoms are removed either way. I'd rather have everyone be _free_ to participate in traffic on safer, more observable streets, where air quality, maneuverability and parking space is decreased only for a good reason, than have a small minority who like the arms race or "bigger and meaner = better for my ego" cars be free to buy (and normalize) such cars (regardless of the car maker's nationality). And I'd bet that's the real reason others cheer this on, too, not what you chose to assume in this unnecessarily inflammatory comment. The easiest way to feel better about oneself is to make up negative assumptions about others. Introspection time
You first.
HN fulminating against US pickups is as predictable as it is tedious.
You are a European who drives an EV, so you might not be intimately familiar with just how absurdly large these trucks are. I was recently driving and pulled up at a red light next to one; the top of the hood neatly lined with with the top of the hair of a woman crossing the street directly in front of it. If it had been someone short or a child, the truck driver might have literally been incapable of seeing them.
These things are tolerable on American suburban roads, which are sized generously with even more generous parking. They're an utter disaster for pedestrians because their front profile is more "brick wall" than "gentle slope." It would be fine if they were driven slowly, but the machismo that leads people to buy them also means that they are all absurdly quick.