If you actually follow those claims, you'll find a report published by a cohort partially composed of Falun Gong members.
The actual report points to about 60-80 possible instances of doctors not putting in the maximum amount of effort to save a life over a period of 20-30 years.
Not exactly systemic like people parrot. Sorta like how people endlessly repeated "social credit score" despite most Chinese acknowledging it barely existed for a majority of the population.
Jeremy Lewin was the cause of so many deaths from his actions here. I wonder if he smiled as he cut USAID funding. I wonder if he laughed when vaccines weren't delivered and babies died.
I disapprove of this kind of article. These useful rubes are not powerful masterminds.
Why go on a witch hunt to hold a 19 year old responsible, when meanwhile Mark “they trust me dumbfucks” Zuckerberg is left off the hook for his teenage improprieties?
You are assuming these people were just following procedure. This is not accurate. There is at least one case where data was taken and intended to be improperly used at a private company.
These people are more than useful rubes. They actively committed unethical (if not illegal) acts.
They were following the procedure they were ordered to follow. They were doing exactly what they were meant to be doing.
And a lot of people on HN were enthusiastically supportive of what they were doing. Even the illegal stuff. Especially the illegal stuff. Odd how back then DOGE were "bold, brilliant patriots doing what was necessary to cut government waste and drain the swamp" and now they're innocent naive babes who were just in over their heads.
I dunno, I feel like the kid who used ChatGPT to decide to cut funding to a program such that tens of thousands of people now die deserves some social criticism. People should experience shame when entering in to such a project.
A kid who breaks into a car to steal a backpack gets railroaded into prison. That's orders of magnitude less harmful to society than what these guys did.
The individuals took a public job that requires accountability. The public deserves to learn all about the scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services.
> The public deserves to learn all about the scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services.
Eh, kinda sorta. Be careful throwing around terms like "scum people."
A lot of the DOGE people were basically immature children. IIRC, a lot of business like younger employees, because they lack maturity and can be eager to please, so they'll enthusiastically embrace the bullshit you feed them. If anyone's scum, it was the older people leading DOGE who consciously took advantage of the immaturity readily available on twitter.
Some of those guys will almost certainly grow out of it.
> Some of those guys will almost certainly grow out of it.
We send teenagers to prison for less societal damage. They don't get an opportunity to "grow out of it". I don't know why these teenagers should get more benefit of the doubt.
For the benefit of those outside the US: when I was growing up, and we constantly had police officers talk to us in school as part of the ill-fated DARE "just say no" campaign, the next most common phrase we heard was "tried as an adult".
i.e., if you were 14 or older, you couldn't drink, vote, or even get a learner's permit to drive a motor vehicle, and you were probably flooded with all kinds of hormones making it even more more difficult to regulate yourself, but you'd be put in prison with adults rather than go to juvenile hall if you were ever convicted of a crime, and any felonies would stay on your record permanently, essentially ending any hope you'd have at a normal life.
While I have some sympathy for the youngest members of DOGE, they are actually old enough to be legal adults, and I would point out that their youthful naïveté and the "but they're just kids" response to any attempts at holding them accountable is precisely why they were chosen for their roles.
Sorry, no. Are they adults or not? Are they considered mentally disabled? If they are adults they should be held to the same standards as adults. If they're given adult privileges then they are grown ups.
I get a little annoyed at this reasoning because I remember at one point when Donald Trump Jr. did something idiotic in 2017, they were acting like he was "just a dumb kid" as like a 37 year old man. I'm younger than that now, and if I committed a crime I'd still get charged as an adult.
Hey you gotta start being scum somewhere if you think tearing down democracy is a good idea or “teaching a lesson” to your fellow citizens through destruction. They earned all the titles coming their way. Scum is the nicest thing we can call them.
> > scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services
> No need for hyperbolics, no one will take you seriously.
Everything but "scum" was just a statement of fact, though? I guess maybe people trying to wreck government services and subvert democracy might not qualify as "scum people" to everyone.
https://archive.ph/XduSR
It's a shame that anyone hired them. There's nothing like failing upwards.
There's no accountability in Western society for corruption. At least the CCP occasionally executes someone to make a point.
And steal organs from dissidents
If you actually follow those claims, you'll find a report published by a cohort partially composed of Falun Gong members.
The actual report points to about 60-80 possible instances of doctors not putting in the maximum amount of effort to save a life over a period of 20-30 years.
Not exactly systemic like people parrot. Sorta like how people endlessly repeated "social credit score" despite most Chinese acknowledging it barely existed for a majority of the population.
It's like going out of your way to hire north korean IT workers to ensure all your stuff gets stolen and ransomwared.
Jeremy Lewin was the cause of so many deaths from his actions here. I wonder if he smiled as he cut USAID funding. I wonder if he laughed when vaccines weren't delivered and babies died.
I disapprove of this kind of article. These useful rubes are not powerful masterminds.
Why go on a witch hunt to hold a 19 year old responsible, when meanwhile Mark “they trust me dumbfucks” Zuckerberg is left off the hook for his teenage improprieties?
Maybe we would have been better off if people went after Zuckerberg when he was 19 too
Why not both? I really don’t think they are rubes. I wouldn’t have done anything like this at 19, and nor would any of my friends at the time.
You are assuming these people were just following procedure. This is not accurate. There is at least one case where data was taken and intended to be improperly used at a private company.
These people are more than useful rubes. They actively committed unethical (if not illegal) acts.
They were following the procedure they were ordered to follow. They were doing exactly what they were meant to be doing.
And a lot of people on HN were enthusiastically supportive of what they were doing. Even the illegal stuff. Especially the illegal stuff. Odd how back then DOGE were "bold, brilliant patriots doing what was necessary to cut government waste and drain the swamp" and now they're innocent naive babes who were just in over their heads.
Zuck should be held accountable for myriad things.
We can do both.
I dunno, I feel like the kid who used ChatGPT to decide to cut funding to a program such that tens of thousands of people now die deserves some social criticism. People should experience shame when entering in to such a project.
A kid who breaks into a car to steal a backpack gets railroaded into prison. That's orders of magnitude less harmful to society than what these guys did.
[flagged]
I can't help but notice the quality of the writing on this article is very low. Years ago Wired use to write with quite a bit more flair.
A decade or so ago before the Conde Nast take over.
How is this not doxxing for purely punitive reasons?
The only possible reasons to publish this are to encourage harassment of the employees involved, or manufacture more culture war flamebait.
What do you think people are going to do, exfiltrate their SS and IRS data to Palantir to have them profiled and classified as enemies of the state?
That's crazy! That should be the President's job.
No no no, the President's job is to start a holy war* in Iran to distract the country from his pedophilia.
* sorry "special operation"
The individuals took a public job that requires accountability. The public deserves to learn all about the scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services.
> The public deserves to learn all about the scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services.
Eh, kinda sorta. Be careful throwing around terms like "scum people."
A lot of the DOGE people were basically immature children. IIRC, a lot of business like younger employees, because they lack maturity and can be eager to please, so they'll enthusiastically embrace the bullshit you feed them. If anyone's scum, it was the older people leading DOGE who consciously took advantage of the immaturity readily available on twitter.
Some of those guys will almost certainly grow out of it.
> Some of those guys will almost certainly grow out of it.
We send teenagers to prison for less societal damage. They don't get an opportunity to "grow out of it". I don't know why these teenagers should get more benefit of the doubt.
This 100%.
For the benefit of those outside the US: when I was growing up, and we constantly had police officers talk to us in school as part of the ill-fated DARE "just say no" campaign, the next most common phrase we heard was "tried as an adult".
i.e., if you were 14 or older, you couldn't drink, vote, or even get a learner's permit to drive a motor vehicle, and you were probably flooded with all kinds of hormones making it even more more difficult to regulate yourself, but you'd be put in prison with adults rather than go to juvenile hall if you were ever convicted of a crime, and any felonies would stay on your record permanently, essentially ending any hope you'd have at a normal life.
While I have some sympathy for the youngest members of DOGE, they are actually old enough to be legal adults, and I would point out that their youthful naïveté and the "but they're just kids" response to any attempts at holding them accountable is precisely why they were chosen for their roles.
They should be growing out of it in prison.
Sorry, no. Are they adults or not? Are they considered mentally disabled? If they are adults they should be held to the same standards as adults. If they're given adult privileges then they are grown ups.
I get a little annoyed at this reasoning because I remember at one point when Donald Trump Jr. did something idiotic in 2017, they were acting like he was "just a dumb kid" as like a 37 year old man. I'm younger than that now, and if I committed a crime I'd still get charged as an adult.
Hey you gotta start being scum somewhere if you think tearing down democracy is a good idea or “teaching a lesson” to your fellow citizens through destruction. They earned all the titles coming their way. Scum is the nicest thing we can call them.
“They were just following orders”?
The same should hold for all Google employees then, which is basically a public utility at this point.
> scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services
No need for hyperbolics, no one will take you seriously.
> > scum people trying to destroy democracy and government services
> No need for hyperbolics, no one will take you seriously.
Everything but "scum" was just a statement of fact, though? I guess maybe people trying to wreck government services and subvert democracy might not qualify as "scum people" to everyone.
I think all Google employees are scum too. Same for Meta and Microsoft and Twitter and Amazon employees. Basically all of big tech are complicit scum.
I dont use Google so not a public utility for me. Maybe a public cess pool operated by scum?