Instrumental music seems very popular with those who listen while working. Lyrics are noticeably distracting for me, unless I tune out the music altogether, but with instrumentals I can sort of work to a "rhythm" it feels like. So this was kind of intuitive knowledge, already, at least for me.
Because of this, I find myself listening to a lot of Jungle and DnB, jazz, fusion, and the occasional 30 minute Phish jam.
Youtube is a gold mine (favorite channels: MrMarmar420, telekinetica, astavely56, silverchair97, lazylightning55a, and phish's official channel) MKDevo also has some good pro-shots of early 3.0 (full view of CK5 lights) but doesn't seem to cover them anymore.
Relisten or phish.in if you don't mind taper auds.
If you really want the good stuff, the live phish app is unbeatable. Full sondboad quality, all the LP official releases, Live Baits, every show since 2009, and most (but nowhere near all) of the good 90's shows. Can't recommend enough, it's an endless well of musical exploration and is my default music app
yes i've been waiting for years to be asked this on HN =P
edit: also theres a "just jams" phish channel that cuts out all songs/lyrics lol
As a musician (piano), I've never been able to listen to music while working: it's too distracting, even without lyrics. That makes sense to me because for musicians, hearing just the music still makes your brain want to focus on the structure of it, time signature, rhythm patterns, interesting chords, key changes, etc. - things that a non-musician isn't so intellectually aware of, even if they like them in the music.
>That makes sense to me because for musicians, hearing just the music still makes your brain want to focus on the structure of it, time signature, rhythm patterns, interesting chords, key changes, etc
There's special music for focus that tries to keep all those to a minimum. 4/4 beats, no fancy rhythms, no changes, basic chords and repeating melodies etc. After a while, even if you're Mozart, you can ignore it just fine, just get the vibe and the driving pulse.
Interesting. Guitarist (as a hobby) here. I find familiar, favorite music good for concentration, with or without lyrics. But new music is what gets me. I give it too much attention, similar to what you describe.
I mostly listen to metal and all its various subgenres.
I used to work for a guy years ago who ran record labels that released almost entirely ambient electronic music and eventually I figured that it was because he was also a business terminator and workaholic alongside, and any music with too much going on like vocals or complexity would have distracted his concentration away from the important task of getting it sold and out of the door.
So a whole swathe of music buyers were convinced that this cutting edge music was hip and where the avant garde was happening when in reality it was mostly so he could concentrate on marketing to them. Any music out of that limited remit was rejected because he could listen and think about other things at the same time if the music was minimal and free of lyrics.
Yeah, no. There's no shortage of ambient electronic music labels, and it's not because CEOs need to use their music to concentrate to their business and marketing.
Not to mention there's no end to cutthroat very marketing and business oriented music execs selling vocal music.
Here's an idea why: because you presented an implausible conjecture, that he only sold ambient music because it was the right soundtrack to him making business dealings for selling music, lest he be distracted by other types of music.
Unless the direct experience involves him telling you straight out "I only sell ambient because it's the only thing I can listen to when making marketing moves", it's mind-reading.
Not to mention, that even if that was said, it would most likely still be in jest.
Sorry, personal experience doesn't cover everything, nor does it trump collective experience and common sense.
You lost me at conjecture. It was empirical research.
He also wouldn’t have said that because he wouldn’t have wanted to admit it or admit to rejecting anything with vocals. And for example, we sold free jazz (amongst other things) alongside but it was never played in the office because it’s too distracting.
“There's no shortage of ambient electronic music labels, and it's not because CEOs need to use their music to concentrate to their business and marketing” - this general case of the existence of other ambient labels where the owners aren’t selling ambient music so they can focus on marketing doesn’t negate the verisimilitude of my specific case, or of my specific experience which you don’t have access to.
Yet you’re saying I’m not only incorrect so deliberately peddling falsehoods, my years of observation within the music industry and eventual conclusion is wholly wrong, and furthermore, you’re saying this in a thread about a paper which proposes that “music with lyrics interferes with cognitive tasks”, an example of which I am affirming.
>You lost me at conjecture. It was empirical research.
He also wouldn’t have said that because he wouldn’t have wanted to admit it
Yes, aka, mind-reading. Aka conjecture.
>* and furthermore, you’re saying this in a thread about a paper which proposes that “music with lyrics interferes with cognitive tasks”, an example of which I am affirming.*
Which is irrelevant. Nobody argued that music with lyrics doesn't interfere with cognitive tasks. Or that your label boss didn't prefer ambient while working, because he felt it didn't interfere with his cognitive tasks.
What I disagreed with was the mind-reading part:
"we released almost entirely ambient electronic music and eventually I figured that it was because he was also a business terminator and workaholic alongside, and any music with too much going on like vocals or complexity would have distracted his concentration away from the important task of getting it sold and out of the door.
So a whole swathe of music buyers were convinced that this cutting edge music was hip and where the avant garde was happening when in reality it was mostly so he could concentrate on marketing to them. Any music out of that limited remit was rejected because he could listen and think about other things at the same time if the music was minimal and free of lyrics".
The Occam's razor explanation is that there's no big conspiracy: he had a label focusing on instrumental music (like countless others), and he happened to prefer one specific genre (ambient music) while working for focus. Doesn't mean he didn't also liked it artistically, or that he duped people selling it as art, while he only cared for it as focus music.
Maybe you just don't like ambient, and you made up the whole thing (which "he wouldn't admit" anyway), because you couldn't fathom somebody genuinely liking that genre artistically AND also preferring it as focus music, as opposed to merely advocating it as focus music.
Especially as you now added the little detail that he also sold other genres:
"we sold free jazz (amongst other things) alongside but it was never played in the office because it’s too distracting"
So, he sold other styles too. The only factual observation is that we prefered ambient music himself to focus while working. Not that he solely sold ambient because it was the only thing he could listen at at the office.
Sorry, the idea that he sold ambient only because it was all he could listen to while working, and duping buyers that thought it was hip and artistic choice while he only appreciated for focus purposes, still sounds bogus.
And that he sold other styles too, even though he didn't listen to them as focus music, already negates the "any music out of that limited remit was rejected because he could listen and think about other things at the same time if the music was minimal and free of lyrics".
I think (and agree for myself) this happens at a certain age I’m pretty sure it didn’t affect me personally when I was 20, and at some point between then and 30 this became apparently “so true.” I remember reflecting upon it.
Same goes for me - in my teens and early twenties, I listened to plenty of music with lyrics while working. By the time I got into my mid/late twenties, that changed. Now I more or less exclusively listen to electronic music (jungle / dnb / downtempo / idm).
Music helps me get into a flow, but it has to be pure vibe and rhythm. Lyrics definitely distract from the task. Family and peers find it odd that I don't really listen to or seek out music with lyrics.
I can enjoy it, just not what stimulates me at this point.
I actually find music with lyrics helps me concentrate, as long as it’s an old song that I’m familiar. New songs are distracting as I would wander off trying to understand what’s being sung. Old songs have no such problem and they just become familiar background patterns.
I used to be a professional musician, and I can't work if there is any music playing the the background. It drove my ex-wife nuts because she could not stand the silence. We ended up playing background sounds from coffee shops, which worked for both of us.
But recently there is one big exception!
I can listen to AI-generated instrumental jazz or blues in the background, and it does not distract me after the first few seconds. I think it's because the music doesn't go anywhere. It's just kind of noodling.
As a musician, I feel kind of bad listening to AI music, but it is amazing in this use case.
I've known this since I was 7 and started reading books, and couldn't sit in the living room because either (good) pop music was playing or the TV was on. Especially with my ADHD I take in a lot of the ambient world around me.
When I was reading books or anything as a teen in the 80's I started listening mostly to instrumental music, such as Jean-Michel Jarre, Tangerine Dream, ZTT 12"es with lots of instrumental content (FGTH/Propaganda/Art Of Noise etc.), Windham Hill albums, etc.
I've always told people to use instrumental music when doing cognitively demanding tasks, especially anything to do with language and words.
Almost all of the music I listen to is instrumental. Like the article says, lyrics distract me from whatever I'm doing, and I rarely listen to music for the sake of listening to music, it's always something I'm going while doing something else. At most I might listen to lyrics while driving, but I'll pause the music if the driving situation gets complicated (like in stop and go traffic where I need to get over 3 lanes)
I am (ostensibly high functioning) ADHD (for creative definitions of “functioning” and “high”.) The more distracting the music, the better I can focus.
Lords of Acid for the win! At 12. My speakers go to 12.
Anything less wouldn’t be anything at all, would it?
I can totally relate. I often listen to instrumental music while I work. Lately I've listened to music with lyrics and I have a slightly harder time reading, writing and thinking. Not being a native English speaker and not understanding everything helps though.
A lovely example of a study that is both obviously true and misses the point.
Music with lyrics directly interferes with any task that has a verbal component, and the worse you are at multitasking, the worse the interference. Despite being terrible at multitasking, I still listen to music with lyrics. Why? Principally because the alternative, hearing all the conversations in my immediate vicinity, is usually both more distracting and less pleasant. But there are also auxiliary benefits, such as an increase in "work stamina" and a passive signal to coworkers to interrupt only if it's important.
Now, I could listen to lo-fi all day, or three-hour soundtracks on Youtube, and sometimes do, but it gets boring pretty fast!
Anyway: obviously true, still worth it because the alternative is worse.
(By the way, other mitigating strategies: listening to music in a language you don't understand, or listening to lyrics so familiar you can screen them out. My top Spotify songs all get played several hundred times a year.)
Try to listen to music in language you don't understand.
The effects of having lyrics don't appear unless you focus on them to repeat the memory of song.
Of course instrumentals are better, but lyrics lift the mood by virtue of having some "virtual social context" simulation.
Instrumental music seems very popular with those who listen while working. Lyrics are noticeably distracting for me, unless I tune out the music altogether, but with instrumentals I can sort of work to a "rhythm" it feels like. So this was kind of intuitive knowledge, already, at least for me.
Because of this, I find myself listening to a lot of Jungle and DnB, jazz, fusion, and the occasional 30 minute Phish jam.
Where do you get your Phish?
Youtube is a gold mine (favorite channels: MrMarmar420, telekinetica, astavely56, silverchair97, lazylightning55a, and phish's official channel) MKDevo also has some good pro-shots of early 3.0 (full view of CK5 lights) but doesn't seem to cover them anymore.
Relisten or phish.in if you don't mind taper auds.
If you really want the good stuff, the live phish app is unbeatable. Full sondboad quality, all the LP official releases, Live Baits, every show since 2009, and most (but nowhere near all) of the good 90's shows. Can't recommend enough, it's an endless well of musical exploration and is my default music app
yes i've been waiting for years to be asked this on HN =P
edit: also theres a "just jams" phish channel that cuts out all songs/lyrics lol
From a phishmonger.
As a musician (piano), I've never been able to listen to music while working: it's too distracting, even without lyrics. That makes sense to me because for musicians, hearing just the music still makes your brain want to focus on the structure of it, time signature, rhythm patterns, interesting chords, key changes, etc. - things that a non-musician isn't so intellectually aware of, even if they like them in the music.
>That makes sense to me because for musicians, hearing just the music still makes your brain want to focus on the structure of it, time signature, rhythm patterns, interesting chords, key changes, etc
There's special music for focus that tries to keep all those to a minimum. 4/4 beats, no fancy rhythms, no changes, basic chords and repeating melodies etc. After a while, even if you're Mozart, you can ignore it just fine, just get the vibe and the driving pulse.
Interesting. Guitarist (as a hobby) here. I find familiar, favorite music good for concentration, with or without lyrics. But new music is what gets me. I give it too much attention, similar to what you describe.
I mostly listen to metal and all its various subgenres.
I‘m also a musician and I can only listen to ambient music when working. Anything else is a big distraction.
I used to work for a guy years ago who ran record labels that released almost entirely ambient electronic music and eventually I figured that it was because he was also a business terminator and workaholic alongside, and any music with too much going on like vocals or complexity would have distracted his concentration away from the important task of getting it sold and out of the door.
So a whole swathe of music buyers were convinced that this cutting edge music was hip and where the avant garde was happening when in reality it was mostly so he could concentrate on marketing to them. Any music out of that limited remit was rejected because he could listen and think about other things at the same time if the music was minimal and free of lyrics.
Kinda doubt the cause and effect there. I suspect his buyers wanted exactly what he wanted - audio wallpaper to quiet their internal dialogue.
Yeah, no. There's no shortage of ambient electronic music labels, and it's not because CEOs need to use their music to concentrate to their business and marketing.
Not to mention there's no end to cutthroat very marketing and business oriented music execs selling vocal music.
Well I’m expressing my years of direct experience working for the guy and you’re contradicting that even though you weren’t there. No idea why.
Here's an idea why: because you presented an implausible conjecture, that he only sold ambient music because it was the right soundtrack to him making business dealings for selling music, lest he be distracted by other types of music.
Unless the direct experience involves him telling you straight out "I only sell ambient because it's the only thing I can listen to when making marketing moves", it's mind-reading.
Not to mention, that even if that was said, it would most likely still be in jest.
Sorry, personal experience doesn't cover everything, nor does it trump collective experience and common sense.
You lost me at conjecture. It was empirical research.
He also wouldn’t have said that because he wouldn’t have wanted to admit it or admit to rejecting anything with vocals. And for example, we sold free jazz (amongst other things) alongside but it was never played in the office because it’s too distracting.
“There's no shortage of ambient electronic music labels, and it's not because CEOs need to use their music to concentrate to their business and marketing” - this general case of the existence of other ambient labels where the owners aren’t selling ambient music so they can focus on marketing doesn’t negate the verisimilitude of my specific case, or of my specific experience which you don’t have access to.
Yet you’re saying I’m not only incorrect so deliberately peddling falsehoods, my years of observation within the music industry and eventual conclusion is wholly wrong, and furthermore, you’re saying this in a thread about a paper which proposes that “music with lyrics interferes with cognitive tasks”, an example of which I am affirming.
Keep on with your hubris if you must though:
>You lost me at conjecture. It was empirical research. He also wouldn’t have said that because he wouldn’t have wanted to admit it
Yes, aka, mind-reading. Aka conjecture.
>* and furthermore, you’re saying this in a thread about a paper which proposes that “music with lyrics interferes with cognitive tasks”, an example of which I am affirming.*
Which is irrelevant. Nobody argued that music with lyrics doesn't interfere with cognitive tasks. Or that your label boss didn't prefer ambient while working, because he felt it didn't interfere with his cognitive tasks.
What I disagreed with was the mind-reading part:
"we released almost entirely ambient electronic music and eventually I figured that it was because he was also a business terminator and workaholic alongside, and any music with too much going on like vocals or complexity would have distracted his concentration away from the important task of getting it sold and out of the door. So a whole swathe of music buyers were convinced that this cutting edge music was hip and where the avant garde was happening when in reality it was mostly so he could concentrate on marketing to them. Any music out of that limited remit was rejected because he could listen and think about other things at the same time if the music was minimal and free of lyrics".
The Occam's razor explanation is that there's no big conspiracy: he had a label focusing on instrumental music (like countless others), and he happened to prefer one specific genre (ambient music) while working for focus. Doesn't mean he didn't also liked it artistically, or that he duped people selling it as art, while he only cared for it as focus music.
Maybe you just don't like ambient, and you made up the whole thing (which "he wouldn't admit" anyway), because you couldn't fathom somebody genuinely liking that genre artistically AND also preferring it as focus music, as opposed to merely advocating it as focus music.
Especially as you now added the little detail that he also sold other genres:
"we sold free jazz (amongst other things) alongside but it was never played in the office because it’s too distracting"
So, he sold other styles too. The only factual observation is that we prefered ambient music himself to focus while working. Not that he solely sold ambient because it was the only thing he could listen at at the office.
Sorry, the idea that he sold ambient only because it was all he could listen to while working, and duping buyers that thought it was hip and artistic choice while he only appreciated for focus purposes, still sounds bogus.
And that he sold other styles too, even though he didn't listen to them as focus music, already negates the "any music out of that limited remit was rejected because he could listen and think about other things at the same time if the music was minimal and free of lyrics".
Nah.
I think (and agree for myself) this happens at a certain age I’m pretty sure it didn’t affect me personally when I was 20, and at some point between then and 30 this became apparently “so true.” I remember reflecting upon it.
Same goes for me - in my teens and early twenties, I listened to plenty of music with lyrics while working. By the time I got into my mid/late twenties, that changed. Now I more or less exclusively listen to electronic music (jungle / dnb / downtempo / idm).
Music helps me get into a flow, but it has to be pure vibe and rhythm. Lyrics definitely distract from the task. Family and peers find it odd that I don't really listen to or seek out music with lyrics.
I can enjoy it, just not what stimulates me at this point.
Same here!! I wonder why?
I actually find music with lyrics helps me concentrate, as long as it’s an old song that I’m familiar. New songs are distracting as I would wander off trying to understand what’s being sung. Old songs have no such problem and they just become familiar background patterns.
I used to be a professional musician, and I can't work if there is any music playing the the background. It drove my ex-wife nuts because she could not stand the silence. We ended up playing background sounds from coffee shops, which worked for both of us.
But recently there is one big exception!
I can listen to AI-generated instrumental jazz or blues in the background, and it does not distract me after the first few seconds. I think it's because the music doesn't go anywhere. It's just kind of noodling.
As a musician, I feel kind of bad listening to AI music, but it is amazing in this use case.
I've known this since I was 7 and started reading books, and couldn't sit in the living room because either (good) pop music was playing or the TV was on. Especially with my ADHD I take in a lot of the ambient world around me.
When I was reading books or anything as a teen in the 80's I started listening mostly to instrumental music, such as Jean-Michel Jarre, Tangerine Dream, ZTT 12"es with lots of instrumental content (FGTH/Propaganda/Art Of Noise etc.), Windham Hill albums, etc.
I've always told people to use instrumental music when doing cognitively demanding tasks, especially anything to do with language and words.
Almost all of the music I listen to is instrumental. Like the article says, lyrics distract me from whatever I'm doing, and I rarely listen to music for the sake of listening to music, it's always something I'm going while doing something else. At most I might listen to lyrics while driving, but I'll pause the music if the driving situation gets complicated (like in stop and go traffic where I need to get over 3 lanes)
I am (ostensibly high functioning) ADHD (for creative definitions of “functioning” and “high”.) The more distracting the music, the better I can focus.
Lords of Acid for the win! At 12. My speakers go to 12.
Anything less wouldn’t be anything at all, would it?
I can totally relate. I often listen to instrumental music while I work. Lately I've listened to music with lyrics and I have a slightly harder time reading, writing and thinking. Not being a native English speaker and not understanding everything helps though.
i wonder what the results are with lyrics in languages that the listener doesn't understand.
A lovely example of a study that is both obviously true and misses the point.
Music with lyrics directly interferes with any task that has a verbal component, and the worse you are at multitasking, the worse the interference. Despite being terrible at multitasking, I still listen to music with lyrics. Why? Principally because the alternative, hearing all the conversations in my immediate vicinity, is usually both more distracting and less pleasant. But there are also auxiliary benefits, such as an increase in "work stamina" and a passive signal to coworkers to interrupt only if it's important.
Now, I could listen to lo-fi all day, or three-hour soundtracks on Youtube, and sometimes do, but it gets boring pretty fast!
Anyway: obviously true, still worth it because the alternative is worse.
(By the way, other mitigating strategies: listening to music in a language you don't understand, or listening to lyrics so familiar you can screen them out. My top Spotify songs all get played several hundred times a year.)
Haha, listening to music in the other language I understand (from the language required for the task) helps in my case. ;)
Try to listen to music in language you don't understand. The effects of having lyrics don't appear unless you focus on them to repeat the memory of song. Of course instrumentals are better, but lyrics lift the mood by virtue of having some "virtual social context" simulation.
This is obvious.