The problem is right now LPR data is available to just about everyone who wants it for any reason as long as they are part of law enforcement. They are using it, for example, to crack down on dissent, to stalk ex lovers, and to enforce abortion restrictions that are constitutionally dubious.
If we are to maintain our liberty, the vast power such a surveillance apparatus should either not exist or only be accessible through an adversarial court system (i.e. a search warrant).
Just to expand on my ideas above about how we might manage them:
(1) Entities creating these data sets should require licenses to do so.
(2) Creation of real-time location data sets would itself be a criminal offense without a license.
(3) Data would need to be encrypted and stored according to a set of best practices. Failure to do so would be a criminal offense.
(4) Access to data would be available through a court, ideally with the judge literally controlling access to the cryptographic keys.
(5) Accessing the data without permission would be a criminal offense.
(6) You would probably need to add civil penalties not subject to sovereign immunity. Otherwise cops would just ignore the law about unauthorized access and then also fail to prosecute themselves.
Or you know we could just make them illegal altogether (including the ones the cell phone company creates for advertisers). Much simpler!
I don't think any entity (including but not limited to the government) should be allowed to create or maintain data sets of people's near or real time location data. Think about all the ways this data can be misused.
We are truly creating the chains that will bind us by allowing these kinds of tools to exist. And for what? We managed for generations to do policing without LPRs. Are we so drowning in crime that we should create universal surveillance as a solution?
Along a similar line, speed limits should be reduced to 35mph maximum for non-emergency traffic, it would save thousands of pointless deaths every year.
But the small harm of time wasted in traffic is -worth- the. sacrifice of thousands of lives, as it turn out.
We’ve never had a central data store that would make it practical to achieve such a feat. Now we have one that could answer questions like this, forever.
Mass surveillance at scale is not a trivial problem to solve, but Flock is both making it happen and making it clear that they are fine with enabling bad actors to take advantage of it.
> I am not harmed when I go through a toll plaza or an express lane.
Yet. The jewish people had no problem that the government had detailed lists including the religion. It helped the Nazis killing many jews. Total surveillance will always be abused like every other invasive law.
First it’s against child abuse and terrorist, then organized crime, then crimes like theft, then littering and jaywalking, then swearing in public
You don't have an expectation of privacy. I do. I don't want to go outside and have my every move recorded. There is something deeply disgusting about that notion.
Wrong metric-- the person caught would have almost certainly been caught absent it, making it easy to overstate the benefit.
When someone with access-- potentially LEO but the access set is much larger-- uses the data to stalk and harass someone you'll usually never know that the ALPR camera was the data source.
So its easy to overstate the contribution and understate the harm.
But if you talk a step back you can see the dramatic change being made to our world: making it impossible to go about your life without being constantly tracked, cataloged, and having your history made available to who knows who, for who knows what purpose, for who knows how long (but probably forever).
Is there an easier way to make this statement?
So did we kill a legislation that would have blocked Police license plate readers and Flock?
Or because the legislation is killed, we can block Police license plate readers and flock?
Good riddance.
Just yesterday, flock helped police catch a dude who shot two women and was on the run https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/napa-road-rage-sho....
There's no expectation of privacy on public roads, but there are angry people behind 2 ton death machines.
"Kill switches" are too much, but license plate readers are not.
The problem is right now LPR data is available to just about everyone who wants it for any reason as long as they are part of law enforcement. They are using it, for example, to crack down on dissent, to stalk ex lovers, and to enforce abortion restrictions that are constitutionally dubious.
If we are to maintain our liberty, the vast power such a surveillance apparatus should either not exist or only be accessible through an adversarial court system (i.e. a search warrant).
(1) https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/how-cops-are-using-flo...
(2) https://local12.com/news/nation-world/police-chief-gets-caug...
(3) https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flock-safety-and-texas...
Just to expand on my ideas above about how we might manage them:
(1) Entities creating these data sets should require licenses to do so. (2) Creation of real-time location data sets would itself be a criminal offense without a license. (3) Data would need to be encrypted and stored according to a set of best practices. Failure to do so would be a criminal offense. (4) Access to data would be available through a court, ideally with the judge literally controlling access to the cryptographic keys. (5) Accessing the data without permission would be a criminal offense. (6) You would probably need to add civil penalties not subject to sovereign immunity. Otherwise cops would just ignore the law about unauthorized access and then also fail to prosecute themselves.
Or you know we could just make them illegal altogether (including the ones the cell phone company creates for advertisers). Much simpler!
We need to tighten the legal guardrails around this data and punish cops who misuse it.
This would move society in a positive direction.
Making the data itself a Taboo, just to avoid jailing bad cops, does not.
I don't think any entity (including but not limited to the government) should be allowed to create or maintain data sets of people's near or real time location data. Think about all the ways this data can be misused.
We are truly creating the chains that will bind us by allowing these kinds of tools to exist. And for what? We managed for generations to do policing without LPRs. Are we so drowning in crime that we should create universal surveillance as a solution?
Why not also require that cell companies share up to the second location data with authorities? It would be so much easier to catch criminals!
> punish cops
just say you're not being serious and save us the time.
This is such a silly perspective and it stands in the way of making things better.
Cops are not going away. And we're not going to hide from them through Cyber-Libertarianism.
We can either accept the status quo or, yes, push for more accountability from the agents of the state.
Idk. Collective small harms vs individual harms.
Along a similar line, speed limits should be reduced to 35mph maximum for non-emergency traffic, it would save thousands of pointless deaths every year.
But the small harm of time wasted in traffic is -worth- the. sacrifice of thousands of lives, as it turn out.
I am not harmed when I go through a toll plaza or an express lane.
Nor when I pass a flock camera.
You are boxing with phantoms, I think.
> Nor when I pass a flock camera.
You are not, or at least, you think you are not.
How far removed are we from the federal government revoking the passports of everyone who attended a No Kings rally, anywhere in the country?
> How far removed are we from the federal government revoking the passports of everyone who attended a No Kings rally, anywhere in the country?
Many trans people have already had their passports revoked, for some there is no path to obtaining one again, and it is deeply unsettling to me.
... And what do you think stops them from revoking the passports, today?
Do you think it is Courts and the looming Midterms; or are they just flummoxed by the lack of good surveillance data?
It's really a fantasy and a silly Taboo.
Our Democracy will live or die by politics, not silly rules on data collection at the margins.
We’ve never had a central data store that would make it practical to achieve such a feat. Now we have one that could answer questions like this, forever.
Mass surveillance at scale is not a trivial problem to solve, but Flock is both making it happen and making it clear that they are fine with enabling bad actors to take advantage of it.
The FBI has been an IBM customer for a very long time.
Like maybe the "cheap cameras everywhere" part is novel + important, but "central data store" truly is not.
Slippery reasoning like this is how silly taboos get perpetuated.
> I am not harmed when I go through a toll plaza or an express lane.
Yet. The jewish people had no problem that the government had detailed lists including the religion. It helped the Nazis killing many jews. Total surveillance will always be abused like every other invasive law.
First it’s against child abuse and terrorist, then organized crime, then crimes like theft, then littering and jaywalking, then swearing in public
How about GPS tracking for every step outside your house.
Would also help prevent and solve crimes. No privacy on public roads.
There is also something like proportionality.
You don't have an expectation of privacy. I do. I don't want to go outside and have my every move recorded. There is something deeply disgusting about that notion.
Wrong metric-- the person caught would have almost certainly been caught absent it, making it easy to overstate the benefit.
When someone with access-- potentially LEO but the access set is much larger-- uses the data to stalk and harass someone you'll usually never know that the ALPR camera was the data source.
So its easy to overstate the contribution and understate the harm.
But if you talk a step back you can see the dramatic change being made to our world: making it impossible to go about your life without being constantly tracked, cataloged, and having your history made available to who knows who, for who knows what purpose, for who knows how long (but probably forever).
Why would they "almost certainly" have been caught otherwise?
This is a load bearing component of your argument and it seems thin.
From my perspective, you are synthesizing a harm while ignoring the clear and concrete contribution.
Synthesize no longer: https://ij.org/police-have-reportedly-used-license-plate-rea...