TI is rapidly transitioning to new fabs and processes. They are making old parts with new tooling, and compromising the new parts where the new processes make reproducing the performance of old designs difficult. This has happened before in the semiconductor business.
Its bad business. The fact that new processes can't duplicate things perfectly is unavoidable. What is avoidable is being governed by marketing people.
This sort of thing really annoys me. Part numbers are for use of engineers, not for the marketing dept. If you change the specs, change the part number.
It annoys me too but part numbers are not a spec but more of a strong hint. The attitude of the industry is that it’s up to you to read data sheets carefully and test. Even for a 2N2222 or whatever.
Keeping in mind, though, that this is a jellybean part. You're supposed to be able to order "a" 5532 without specifying the supplier, because many vendors produce "a" 5532, and they're all the same. Different vendors' 5532s are supposed to be able to be treated as the same SKU — literally dumped into co-mingled stock in warehouses — with no ill consequence!
(And yes, until TI's recent move, that was true of the 5532. All the other vendors' 5532s had matching datasheet specs, including the 22V max input voltage. Because a design that was built for "a" 5532 was usually built to run it up to 100%; and that a vendor couldn't offer their part as a swap-in if it couldn't do that.)
But now, if your purchasing department (or the supplier they purchase from) happens to order TI 5532s — or if the warehouse they're sourcing from has comingled any TI 5532s into the general 5532 stock — then your product is now broken, with no real recourse except to change your entirely supply chain to one that specifically excludes TI.
They’re just not really standardized at all, especially semiconductors. Not in the sense you’d expect naively. Some were a long time ago, and supposedly the old Japanese sc parts were, down to die geometry and process. But otherwise, the part number means “this is like the part with a similar number first made by someone else”, not “this is an exact replacement in every way”
This is why you should always order new parts for a new design and never, never trust the old guy with the magic parts box. Also why learning to read and compare data sheets skeptically is a fundamental skill.
No, I’m talking about the guy that builds prototypes out of his magic parts box and says “oh, you can still get those” when the last direct substitute was obsoleted in 2008. Or he’s using the old version of a part like this in a “proven” subcircuit and NOT checking for change notices or other the new data sheets. That’s what I mean by the “magic parts box”. Buy new parts for new prototypes and read all the latest data, folks.
Something is going on over a TI. They tried to scrub their old datasheets from the web a few years ago too [1]
[1] - Texas Instruments sent a DMCA takedown to a site archiving data sheets - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25682785 -
354 points by DyslexicAtheist on Jan 8, 2021 | 122 comments
I got one of those take down notices because I had their catalog of Space Grade Rad hard parts on my website. About six directory levels down. Any Human would have seen it as promoting their parts, which was not the direct intention. The BOT just said it was a Copyright violation and I had to remove it from my site or they would send lawyers after me. It wasn't worth the time to fight.
I've been screwed by TI many times in one way or other. As have colleagues.
They did a die-change of a MSP430 and it stopped working in their product. No answer was forthcoming from TI.
I had designed in a Silicon Labs Bluetooth module a few years ago. Now that TI has bought SiLabs, I'm esigning it out. I simply don't trust TI.
Why do companies always do this? Always the largest companies with all the money to quietly host what at most a couple hundred mb of data and they just don't. Kill the old download links. Ruin all the old support articles that point to those old download links. Ruin all the old forum posts that point there. What is even crazier is sometimes they still have the files they just don't expose them, they make you beg for them with the support agent from across the world who asks if you have tried unplugging the thing first when you ask for the download you know you already want. Infuriating, boring dystopia.
They don't always do this. When competition is strong, companies behave better. The op amp business, like many, many other segments of the semiconductor world, has consolidated into so few manufacturers that meaningful competition is dead. Essentially we're down to two; TI and Analog Devices, across multiple important segments of devices.
This is fucking dire. Lowering voltage will just lead to early failures for poor clueless designers/repairmen that had old datasheet saved and just assume it will never change but slew rate chance is just "well it works, but suddenly it's worse in certain applications"
TI is rapidly transitioning to new fabs and processes. They are making old parts with new tooling, and compromising the new parts where the new processes make reproducing the performance of old designs difficult. This has happened before in the semiconductor business.
Its bad business. The fact that new processes can't duplicate things perfectly is unavoidable. What is avoidable is being governed by marketing people.
This sort of thing really annoys me. Part numbers are for use of engineers, not for the marketing dept. If you change the specs, change the part number.
It annoys me too but part numbers are not a spec but more of a strong hint. The attitude of the industry is that it’s up to you to read data sheets carefully and test. Even for a 2N2222 or whatever.
Keeping in mind, though, that this is a jellybean part. You're supposed to be able to order "a" 5532 without specifying the supplier, because many vendors produce "a" 5532, and they're all the same. Different vendors' 5532s are supposed to be able to be treated as the same SKU — literally dumped into co-mingled stock in warehouses — with no ill consequence!
(And yes, until TI's recent move, that was true of the 5532. All the other vendors' 5532s had matching datasheet specs, including the 22V max input voltage. Because a design that was built for "a" 5532 was usually built to run it up to 100%; and that a vendor couldn't offer their part as a swap-in if it couldn't do that.)
But now, if your purchasing department (or the supplier they purchase from) happens to order TI 5532s — or if the warehouse they're sourcing from has comingled any TI 5532s into the general 5532 stock — then your product is now broken, with no real recourse except to change your entirely supply chain to one that specifically excludes TI.
MPF102 is my favourite there.
“It’s a JFET” is your only guarantee.
Buy binned parts and design spec spread into it.
> The attitude of the industry is that it’s up to you to read data sheets carefully and test.
Is this backed up by court precedent? This seems like you could easily claim damages due to a differently speccd part.
I’m not doubting that’s how the industry operates, but it seems wrong so I’m curious what is supporting such a dysfunctional form of doing business.
They’re just not really standardized at all, especially semiconductors. Not in the sense you’d expect naively. Some were a long time ago, and supposedly the old Japanese sc parts were, down to die geometry and process. But otherwise, the part number means “this is like the part with a similar number first made by someone else”, not “this is an exact replacement in every way”
It's not clear if the SMT version is also bad?
This is why you should always order new parts for a new design and never, never trust the old guy with the magic parts box. Also why learning to read and compare data sheets skeptically is a fundamental skill.
The rumbling and grumbling is because they read the data sheets.
No, I’m talking about the guy that builds prototypes out of his magic parts box and says “oh, you can still get those” when the last direct substitute was obsoleted in 2008. Or he’s using the old version of a part like this in a “proven” subcircuit and NOT checking for change notices or other the new data sheets. That’s what I mean by the “magic parts box”. Buy new parts for new prototypes and read all the latest data, folks.
Something is going on over a TI. They tried to scrub their old datasheets from the web a few years ago too [1]
[1] - Texas Instruments sent a DMCA takedown to a site archiving data sheets - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25682785 - 354 points by DyslexicAtheist on Jan 8, 2021 | 122 comments
I got one of those take down notices because I had their catalog of Space Grade Rad hard parts on my website. About six directory levels down. Any Human would have seen it as promoting their parts, which was not the direct intention. The BOT just said it was a Copyright violation and I had to remove it from my site or they would send lawyers after me. It wasn't worth the time to fight.
I've been screwed by TI many times in one way or other. As have colleagues. They did a die-change of a MSP430 and it stopped working in their product. No answer was forthcoming from TI.
I had designed in a Silicon Labs Bluetooth module a few years ago. Now that TI has bought SiLabs, I'm esigning it out. I simply don't trust TI.
Why do companies always do this? Always the largest companies with all the money to quietly host what at most a couple hundred mb of data and they just don't. Kill the old download links. Ruin all the old support articles that point to those old download links. Ruin all the old forum posts that point there. What is even crazier is sometimes they still have the files they just don't expose them, they make you beg for them with the support agent from across the world who asks if you have tried unplugging the thing first when you ask for the download you know you already want. Infuriating, boring dystopia.
> Why do companies always do this?
They don't always do this. When competition is strong, companies behave better. The op amp business, like many, many other segments of the semiconductor world, has consolidated into so few manufacturers that meaningful competition is dead. Essentially we're down to two; TI and Analog Devices, across multiple important segments of devices.
Because they're changing out their backend CMS and have deemed it too expensive to port ask three old documentation over.
This is fucking dire. Lowering voltage will just lead to early failures for poor clueless designers/repairmen that had old datasheet saved and just assume it will never change but slew rate chance is just "well it works, but suddenly it's worse in certain applications"