The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US.
There are 4 possible solutions to this problem;
a) convince Americans that it's worth paying more for a locally built product. This is the simplest approach, but there's only so much margin here that the consumer will tolerate. At the moment this gap is too large.
b) Tariff foreign imports to raise their cost. So the US consumer pays more, whether they like it or not.
c) subsidize local production out of the "national interest to support this industry" budget. This has the effect of ramping up demand, hence production, hence production being developed, and eventually getting cheaper.
d) improve US products, and prices, so that they compete in price to the import - or at least fall inside the margins such that a) becomes effective. c) can help bridge the gap here until the US companies have caught up.
In the long run, not all these strategies win. If you go the tariff route, then it's hard to undo it later. Local products fall behind, and the harder it becomes to catch up. Not impossible, but hard.
If Ford wanted tarrifs to help boost EV demand, and so allow Ford to build out infrastructure and lower costs, then fine. But it seems it's more of a short term play to just keep ICE Fords selling in the short term.
This is one of those "the internet is a fad, it'll never catch on" moments. EV's are here to stay. They're going to win. That's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention. If the question is "how to maintain the US car production" then they should be all-in on EV development now. It seems to me though that the current strategy seems to be very short term thinking - trying to just hold back the tide.
> The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US.
Boo-fucking-hoo. We can apparently already decimate the American workforce with offshoring and nearshoring, but when it happens to companies themselves, it's apparently too much.
Either protect American industries and workers, or let the flood gates open. Growing up watching this bullshit happen on international and multi decade timescales is disgusting.
The end goal of neoliberalism is to make us as poor as Indians and then it'll be irrelevant whether you offshore or nearshore since everyone internationally will be as poor as you.
Hopefully they can also find a good balance between using cheap parts to actually being safe and comfy. The cheap EVs on the market normally lack in one of these.
I have not yet found any interior shots online, did any of you?
> It remains to be seen whether the Olinia One will face similar pushback from the U.S. once it goes on sale.
> can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge
The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range. In order for this to succeed in Mexico, their market will need different driving habits than the typical American.
(I know this as a former 2014 Leaf lessee. Short-range EVs only make sense when they are the only option in my price range, and I really, really want to drive an EV. Maybe the typical Mexican rarely drives far away from home? Or maybe this is for a niche of Mexicans who really, really want an EV and will tolerate a short range?)
I know absolutely nothing about Mexico in terms of geography or driving so I wonder how feasible an EV that you presumably constantly have to charge is going to fare. In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases.
It's interesting that info about the car is only half the article. The other half is a commentary on how US politicians are desperately trying to keep foreign EVs out of the country, lest it hurt corporate profits.
That's pretty much standard operating procedure for any EV. That's one of the perks of owning an EV. Plug it in when you get home from work, and have a full "tank" every morning. Plus you get the cabin preheating using the wall electricity.
If you have a charger at home, or at work, why does it matter if you have to charge it daily or weekly? Yes, for some lifestyles, range matters. For others, a 125 km range is perfectly acceptable
> In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases.
It's true that some people drive more than 77 miles per day. But a pretty big chunk of people never do, except road trips/vacations. It could easily be worth it to buy a cheap EV for everyday use and then rent a vehicle for long trips.
Huh, the speed limit is odd because in my urban/city driving in the western US (San Diego, LA, SF, Portland and Seattle) all major cities still basically necessitate non-zero highway driving. Even mopeds (and bicycles) can pretty easily exceed 31 mph.
I've spent about 2 months total in Mexico City and there are still in-city areas where it'd be common to exceed 31 mph. The main rate limiter being traffic...
Anyway not to pooh-pooh the idea too much, I am sure there are plenty of use cases but maybe enabling a top speed of 55 mph would increase utility IMO
The limits on range and speed (reported 50kph) would make it a horrible deal for the average American.
150k pesos (~$8.6k) for a brand new wheelchair-accessible city van seems like a killer deal in the Mexican market. That would come on the market for less than a used air-cooled VW beetle (ended production in Mexico in 2003)
Can’t you get a much better used car for that? that’s probably one of the reasons why there is not much demand for basic cheap cars with no features in Western countries at least. Modern cars are much more reliable and last longer than they used to several decades ago and stripped down budget models can’t compete with that.
NYC taxis drive an average of 180 miles per shift[0] so they'd need to triple the range or have some sort of system where they can swap their depleted taxi for a freshly-charged one mid-shift.
Yeah taxis in the capital and small people movers to go from hotel to beach is where these will shine. EVs are especially well suited to stop and go traffic as well.
People are so caught up trying to solve every use case at once. Dropping pollution caused by old taxis in city centers will be a big win for Mexico if they can hit their price point. At the price they are quoting fleet operators can buy 2 and have their drivers swap out mid-day during their lunch.
That was my thought too. They obviously won’t face pushback entering the US from a legal standpoint, but I don’t think consumers will tolerate a sub-200 mile EV well here
Hoping this brings EV infrastructure up in the country. A road trip is still quite an ordeal due to the lack of fast chargers in highways and maybe that's why the range on the first version of Olena is low, as it's aimed to provide "ultra mobility" within cities and not outside of it but still, glad to see the MX government invest into renewable technology.
This vehicle is what most Americans would call a "golf cart". If it doesn't have safety features and can't be driven on highways, it's not really competing with normal cars, so I'm not quite sure the article's analysis makes sense.
The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US.
There are 4 possible solutions to this problem; a) convince Americans that it's worth paying more for a locally built product. This is the simplest approach, but there's only so much margin here that the consumer will tolerate. At the moment this gap is too large.
b) Tariff foreign imports to raise their cost. So the US consumer pays more, whether they like it or not.
c) subsidize local production out of the "national interest to support this industry" budget. This has the effect of ramping up demand, hence production, hence production being developed, and eventually getting cheaper.
d) improve US products, and prices, so that they compete in price to the import - or at least fall inside the margins such that a) becomes effective. c) can help bridge the gap here until the US companies have caught up.
In the long run, not all these strategies win. If you go the tariff route, then it's hard to undo it later. Local products fall behind, and the harder it becomes to catch up. Not impossible, but hard.
If Ford wanted tarrifs to help boost EV demand, and so allow Ford to build out infrastructure and lower costs, then fine. But it seems it's more of a short term play to just keep ICE Fords selling in the short term.
This is one of those "the internet is a fad, it'll never catch on" moments. EV's are here to stay. They're going to win. That's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention. If the question is "how to maintain the US car production" then they should be all-in on EV development now. It seems to me though that the current strategy seems to be very short term thinking - trying to just hold back the tide.
A lot of the underlying EV technology is military applicable too
> The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US.
Boo-fucking-hoo. We can apparently already decimate the American workforce with offshoring and nearshoring, but when it happens to companies themselves, it's apparently too much.
Either protect American industries and workers, or let the flood gates open. Growing up watching this bullshit happen on international and multi decade timescales is disgusting.
The end goal of neoliberalism is to make us as poor as Indians and then it'll be irrelevant whether you offshore or nearshore since everyone internationally will be as poor as you.
Hopefully they can also find a good balance between using cheap parts to actually being safe and comfy. The cheap EVs on the market normally lack in one of these. I have not yet found any interior shots online, did any of you?
> It remains to be seen whether the Olinia One will face similar pushback from the U.S. once it goes on sale.
> can travel up to 125 kilometers (77 miles) on a single charge
The US market generally rejects small-range EVs, except in very niche markets. In order to succeed in the US, it will need roughly 3-4x the range. In order for this to succeed in Mexico, their market will need different driving habits than the typical American.
(I know this as a former 2014 Leaf lessee. Short-range EVs only make sense when they are the only option in my price range, and I really, really want to drive an EV. Maybe the typical Mexican rarely drives far away from home? Or maybe this is for a niche of Mexicans who really, really want an EV and will tolerate a short range?)
I know absolutely nothing about Mexico in terms of geography or driving so I wonder how feasible an EV that you presumably constantly have to charge is going to fare. In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases.
It's interesting that info about the car is only half the article. The other half is a commentary on how US politicians are desperately trying to keep foreign EVs out of the country, lest it hurt corporate profits.
>charge it every single day.
That's pretty much standard operating procedure for any EV. That's one of the perks of owning an EV. Plug it in when you get home from work, and have a full "tank" every morning. Plus you get the cabin preheating using the wall electricity.
If you have a charger at home, or at work, why does it matter if you have to charge it daily or weekly? Yes, for some lifestyles, range matters. For others, a 125 km range is perfectly acceptable
> In the US, a range of 77 miles is a complete non starter. You'd have to charge it every single day. If not multiple times a day in some peoples cases.
It's true that some people drive more than 77 miles per day. But a pretty big chunk of people never do, except road trips/vacations. It could easily be worth it to buy a cheap EV for everyday use and then rent a vehicle for long trips.
exactly - the rejection of short range EVs was when they cost as much as a normal car
if the short range EV is now much cheaper, people will adapt to the restriction because it's now an affordable option
"The car is designed for urban settings and has a top speed of 50 kilometers (31 miles) per hour."
I don't think range will be an issue at that speed tbh.
Cool little transport but not really a "car" in the way we think of them.
> The car is designed for urban settings
Huh, the speed limit is odd because in my urban/city driving in the western US (San Diego, LA, SF, Portland and Seattle) all major cities still basically necessitate non-zero highway driving. Even mopeds (and bicycles) can pretty easily exceed 31 mph.
I've spent about 2 months total in Mexico City and there are still in-city areas where it'd be common to exceed 31 mph. The main rate limiter being traffic...
Anyway not to pooh-pooh the idea too much, I am sure there are plenty of use cases but maybe enabling a top speed of 55 mph would increase utility IMO
The limits on range and speed (reported 50kph) would make it a horrible deal for the average American.
150k pesos (~$8.6k) for a brand new wheelchair-accessible city van seems like a killer deal in the Mexican market. That would come on the market for less than a used air-cooled VW beetle (ended production in Mexico in 2003)
Can’t you get a much better used car for that? that’s probably one of the reasons why there is not much demand for basic cheap cars with no features in Western countries at least. Modern cars are much more reliable and last longer than they used to several decades ago and stripped down budget models can’t compete with that.
I was thinking it would make a good candidate for city taxis and other such urban uses
NYC taxis drive an average of 180 miles per shift[0] so they'd need to triple the range or have some sort of system where they can swap their depleted taxi for a freshly-charged one mid-shift.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxis_of_New_York_City
Yeah taxis in the capital and small people movers to go from hotel to beach is where these will shine. EVs are especially well suited to stop and go traffic as well.
People are so caught up trying to solve every use case at once. Dropping pollution caused by old taxis in city centers will be a big win for Mexico if they can hit their price point. At the price they are quoting fleet operators can buy 2 and have their drivers swap out mid-day during their lunch.
That was my thought too. They obviously won’t face pushback entering the US from a legal standpoint, but I don’t think consumers will tolerate a sub-200 mile EV well here
> They obviously won’t face pushback entering the US from a legal standpoint
I suspect the current federal government might push back on a Mexican EV just for ideological reasons.
My first thought when looking at it is that I doubt the vehicle could pass US safety regulations. Maybe I'm wrong.
Hoping this brings EV infrastructure up in the country. A road trip is still quite an ordeal due to the lack of fast chargers in highways and maybe that's why the range on the first version of Olena is low, as it's aimed to provide "ultra mobility" within cities and not outside of it but still, glad to see the MX government invest into renewable technology.
Would this be enough range for a typical bit of driving in CDMX? Seems like a painful road trip car, but you don't need so much range for a city car.
Here is the company's website:
https://www.olinia.auto/
This vehicle is what most Americans would call a "golf cart". If it doesn't have safety features and can't be driven on highways, it's not really competing with normal cars, so I'm not quite sure the article's analysis makes sense.
they're going to put six people on those small wheels on that small wheelbase?
on the otherhand the mass produced general frame/battery/motor will be great for mods