I don’t prompt Claude anymore. I have loops running that prompt Claude and figuring out what to do. My job is to write loops.
— Boris Cherny, head of Claude Code
Reliability is a direct reflection of the quality of the underlying infrastructural code. If even Anthropic, the company with the world's best agentic vibecoders, has horribly unreliable infrastructure, it really says something about the quality of the world's best agentically produced code.
Is there any indication these errors are related to Anthropic-written code as opposed to operational issues from the fastest-growing infra buildout ever?
Layer-wise, the app is pretty far removed from request routing to GPU pools.
This is almost certainly a software issue, though. Even if it's due to scaling, they still built a system that failed catastrophically rather than degrading gracefully.
Right. If this were truly a pure scaling issue, I’d expect the interface would offer an archive.is-esque “Claude is at capacity; your prompt is #XXX/YYY in the queue; estimated time remaining: ZZZ seconds”
Instead, the whole system just shits the bed, catastrophically.
I would bet that they have inference setup for internal use on a separate system from the customer-facing production environment. The same way telemetry infrastructure needs to be run separate from normal production systems, so you aren't "blind" when you need it most.
Meh, this is the "must be the veganism" fallacy: if someone knows you're vegan, then any ailment you might have, no matter how ubiquitous in the population, must be somehow due to your vegan diet and no more details are required.
Except now it's the "AI did it" fallacy where if you know a company uses AI, even infra scaling issues must be due to AI, and if you had just used less or no AI, you would have been spared even though that has never been true.
The usual response to this goes something like "well they made claims that AI is good" therefore anything short of perfection supposedly debunks the claim.
If you go around bragging that you use AI for everything as part of your marketing plan, then don't be surprised that people blame you heavy AI usage when you have a problem.
This is literally they saying they are letting their LLM run wild(ish) and seeing the status.claude.com we can see the result.
This is a case where the outcome is the direct result of the engineering practices like the ones they describe.
PS: Yes I use Claude, Coded, Amp and Cursor agents every day so I am not saying here LLMs are not valuable.
LE: They did not made claims that "AI is good" they made claims that developers/computer engineers are not needed anymore in the near future. Thats is a stronger claim and has a direct relation with a product they have which needs computer engineering (yes infra counts too) and which seems to be down more than we expect as a good quality bar.
You just said "it's not the 'must be veganism' thing, it's the 'must be veganism thing'"
Unless you have inside knowledge of their infra ops and management tools, it is just guessing and blaming veganism. For all we know it could be tools from Nvidia or anyone else failing under massive load.
It could be the veganism. Some things are. Leaping to it as the only possible explanation for every ailment is exactly the fallacy.
No. We dont need metaphors like that with veganism (which touches ideologies also) when talking about engineering and a company that promotes out loud that engineering is done.
I have not stated anything. I just replied to a metaphor which is not needed cause here we talk about engineering problems handled by engineers in a tech company. I give you something else where this line of thought could be wrong: culture beats (and destroys) engineering practices unless regulated by law.
In this case yes this is not because of LLMs but because of company culture.
Still hard to know where the line draws because Anthropic talks about solving computer science for good as in humans need not apply.
Another data point: GitHub is extremely insistent its employees maximally use AI for internal development [0], and we’ve concomitantly seen its reliability fall off a cliff in the last year or so.
>GitHub is extremely insistent its employees maximally use AI for internal development
Or it could be that GitHub saw a 14x increase in commit volume last year[0], and we've concomitantly seen its reliability fall of a cliff in the last year or so. Given that Microsoft is leasing additional space on AWS(!)[1] to handle the additional commit volume, my personal money is on commit volume growth being a bigger issue than internal use of AI.
Internal use of AI may have been an issue. Commit volume growth may have been an issue. Unless one has direct knowledge of their infrastructure issues, claiming to know is quite literally making exactly the "they are vegan, their illness must be caused by their veganism" argument the GP commenter was talking about.
But it is like that. You have zero insight into the infrastructure issue. And the person quoted above is a Claude Code developer. So because this guy uses Claude generously to build Claude Code, then Anthropic's API scaling issues must necessarily be caused by his agent loops even though scaling issues plague every tech company, no less often pre-AI.
The issue is that it's a thought-terminating cliche, and it would be nice to have one place on the internet that isn't just who can post one the fastest with the most glee to the giddy seal-clapping of the audience.
Engineering practices or best practices are much more than writing code.
So not sure what we are debating here: I see first hand companies jumping full on using LLM for _everything_ for the last 6 months (of course Anthropic longer) and without guardrails and good engineering practices the number of incidents, downtime is increasing.
Look at status.claude.com - Anthropic could at any point come out and say all those are due to third party providers.
I am also not saying here Anthropic is worse than other scaleups. But they do something different: they come in front of us and tell us they have better engineering practices.
> Anthropic could at any point come out and say all those are due to third party providers.
Why can't it be simply the case that Anthropic is struggling by their own accord? Infra scaling isn't a solved problem, much less with new, complicated, ever-changing, stateful LLM requests.
Pretty much every API-service-based company I've worked at was in some constant state of either triaging or thinking about infrastructure health, often due to the age-old cascading problems in a necessarily distributed system.
There’s a difference between having normal levels of difficulty and bad luck, and having people blame those on the wrong thing, vs having extraordinarily miserable quality and having people find the obvious difference. Potentially yes, they might have terrible wiring in their office or a crippling fondness for vim. But if I were their PR department I’d be talking about that if it was the problem.
"..people who followed a vegan diet had noticeably low levels of iodine in their bodies, an element that is essential for growth, bones, and brain function. In addition, vegans had lower bone health scores..." - https://www.bfr.bund.de/en/press-release/vegan-vegetarian-be...
There are a lot of nutritional blind spots in vegan diets.
It is a diet that requires exceptional planning and intentionality to be at a baseline of health similar to a balanced omnivorous diet.
So indeed, the "it must be veganism" is not an unfounded concern when health complications arise, in a very similar way to "it must be the AI" is a valid concern when software issues arise.
I just did a build in Nemesis8 (containerized agents) and Pi appears to be working fine. Opencode is a good choice too if you're interested in checking out GLM 5.2 from z.ai.
They are different models. OpenCode is trying to be a claude code/codex replacement, where-as pi is something you build yourself, kind of trying to be an emacs type thing compared to vs-code. As in emacs it is more common to write your own extensions, where as in vs-code most people just download them.
I keep butting into the question of; why opencode, when you've got codex available? Codex is open source as well, and i can't seem to picture a situation where one would want Opencode over Codex.
As far as I can tell, they tick the same boxes- but one has the support of a big boy model provider.
I am genuinely curious what it tells you, as "curl https//.. | sh" has long been an enormously popular approach to distribution in the open source world. Homebrew, to name just one example, advertises a similar method.
(pi.sh also documents other install methods, like `npm`, on their homepage)
If trust and security is the issue, unfortunately "better" ideas like hashpipe [1] never achieved critical mass
Package managers: ecosystem is fragmented, requiring a long list of distro- and package-manager-specific instructions. Many scripts already install through package managers, they simply make the user’s life easier.
Flatpaks: These are clearly designed for desktop applications, with CLIs treated as an afterthought. They may be the best long-term hope, but today they are definitely not as convenient or widely available as a simple script.
If you care about adoption, `curl | sh` is the only real option today, which is why virtually all project show it as the first option.
The ideas aren't mutually exclusive, and I've never seen an open source project support "curl | sh" without also supporting those methods.
Indeed, plenty of these scripts often act as a "what OS and packager do we have" mux. Just look at the source of this one, for example.
When you support an open source project at scale and/or with less savvy users, you come to see the benefit of "here, just f'ing slam this into your shell and we'll figure it out" installers. I know I have.
There is no threat model that doesn't also apply to pretty much every other distribution method.
It's just people who have internalized "don't paste commands from the Internet into your terminal" and aren't thinking about exactly what makes pasting commands from the Internet into your terminal dangerous, and how that applies to this specific case.
Further - what the flicking fuck do you think an installer is going to do on your system? Not run any commands? Because I've written installers for every platform... they ALL can run commands.
So what exactly is the complaint in this comment? If you want to go read the install script - knock yourself out (or hell, point your agent at it...).
it tells you they're just like basically every other CLI targeting project for the last 15 years? I mean is it a big security hole we all accept, yes, it is. But it's not really indicative of much. That's also how I install rust.
Understand that 99% are comfortable trusting downloads. They know that it's just as easy to sneak backdoors into source code as it is to sneak backdoors into executables.
Incredible how we can claim productivity increases when its either Claude or Github shitting the bed every other day. It must even itself out to a net neutral gain in the long term.
We are back to the baseline. The availability of our tools isn't adding anything in the long term because the productivity increase we get from the tooling is negated by the time we're back to doing it the old fashioned way due to downtime, so there is no claimed productivity increase espoused by the pontificators of the tooling.
The bunch of MD files in the codebase is becoming "tech" debt. It's just English prose, sure, but thousands of lines of English prose. Terse. Succinct. Difficult (if not impossible) to maintain manually without LLMs. That's not "baseline"
Both articles use 2017 as the turning point date. TTS is a lot older than that. It's not difficult to find data to fit the desired point if you choose a narrow enough time range. Or location selectivity - both of those are just about the United States.
When that downtime happens is way more important than the amount of it. Imagine if your payroll system was down for 8 hours a month, but it just so happened to be the day payroll do their calculations?
Totally. The uptime metrics are deceiving imo. A more useful measure for a productivity tool like Claude Code is uptime during work hours for a given time zone. I strongly suspect at least for the three US time zones, we would be looking at a single nine of uptime for that measure.
Business/Office productivity tools can be productive at that rate. Core systems like ERP or arguably CRM can't, but MS Teams is probably already that low, Figma, Canva and several others could absolutely afford to be one nine before it affects their churn materially. I suspect OpenAI and Anthropic make most of their profit on business use cases rather than dev use cases (likely higher revenue but less profit) so this may be what sets the standard of uptime.
Works out at even more days when you consider working hours. And these downtime events never happen when I'm sleeping, always smack in the middle of the afternoon when I'm working.
I have been developing software since the late 80s, mostly CAM software for metal cutting machines, and I have been refereeing tabletop roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons since the late 70s.
I get the power of LLMs, and I do find them useful. But I find them useful in much the same way I find a really good set of random tables useful, or a good set of rules for procedurally generating something like a star sector for a science fiction campaign.
For my day job developing software, and for the RPG campaigns and books I run and publish today, LLMs are, in many cases, random tables on steroids. After using them for two years, even with all their improvements, I am continually reminded by the results I get that, at the heart of it, I am still dealing with what amounts to randomly generated content.
Yes, I know it is more accurate to call the process probabilistic rather than random. And yes, somebody can construct a technically deterministic setup with fixed weights, fixed seeds, fixed sampling parameters, and a frozen runtime environment. But that is like saying you can recreate a rainstorm if you get a thousand butterflies to flap their wings in exactly the right way. It may be technically true, but it is not how the technology behaves in normal day-to-day use.
For practical purposes, given the same prompt and the same apparent starting conditions, the result can differ each time you use a model. The outputs will often be highly correlated, and often useful, but they are not deterministic software in the ordinary sense.
So far, I am failing to see how the inherent probabilistic nature of the technology can be fully overcome. I understand how we got to where we are today from older neural net technology, including the systems used for vision and sound. What we have now can be very useful. But my view is that it is being badly oversold and overhyped. Its probabilistic nature is being vastly underestimated, and that is a major reason for much of the weirdness and many of the failures we keep seeing.
In tabletop roleplaying, there have been times when hobbyists relied too much on procedurally generated content and ultimately got burned by it, either through campaigns that were not as fun or products that were subpar. Each time, the lesson was the same: there is no substitute for human judgment.
Any workflow or technology incorporating LLMs has to keep humans in the loop, and not merely as rubber stamps. The human has to remain the primary decision maker.
Imagine a future where Anthropic holds your company hostage because no one can code properly anymore by hand and demands paying 200% higher price for the usage.
I would guess that they would want to at the very least 10x their prices. Remember they need to make up for training, marketing, etc.. and make a big chunk of profit on top of that to justify their trillion dollar evaluation
Developers who can code without LLMs will go extinct in couple years and there will be legends about them, you should at least have some decent open weight model as a backup
There is something to be said for how the technology stack keeps growing for businesses and what this might mean for the future.
Thirty years ago, you had an OS and you installed applications. No problem.
Later, you had to build and use apps on the internet, an infrastructure that is susceptible to DDOS attacks, government firewalls, and other security risks. Still fine, sort of.
Now, you not only have to build apps on the internet, you also have use LLMs to build apps to remain competitive with other developers. Future (human) maintainers of your code might not properly understand how it works, and if the providers of the LLMs screw up or go rogue, you are properly fucked.
There is a dependency/technology stack debt that is creating risks that need to be acknowledged.
No need to make up speculative futures based on a company only giving one model to their employees. I use Codex, Antigravity, Claude and GLM-5.2 interchangeably. Any sensible employer will do the same.
400k isn’t crazy for the FANG set but it’s still a subset of the developer market and hundreds of thousands of those jobs have been cut in the last few years as they all collectively work to lower SWE pay.
60k a year it needs to be a full irreplaceable part of the infrastructure for I think. There are very few kinds of software that meet that bar right now (certain design tools etc that have no replacement). 12k/year is in the expensive but reasonable for the right tooling category (Matlab etc.).
I don’t know what the future holds. I know the big AI companies are banking on being able to charge for a replacement SWE that works 24/7. Still not convinced these are it yet, as useful as they can be under the right circumstances.
I've been a moderate on using LLMs for programming, but I think this is the straw that's going to send me entirely back to brain coding. It's just too annoying to have a dependency on the network and on a semi-unreliable service provider. I've also been worried about the potential for skill atrophy. Maybe I'll revisit the decision someday when I can run a useful model on modest hardware.
Actual 90d uptime: 97.6838% (calculated by Codex from live data)
Computed from the page’s own data for 2026-03-26 through 2026-06-23:
- Partial outage: 43h 15m 1s
- Major outage: 6h 46m 48s
- Total affected time: 50h 1m 49s
- Major-only uptime: 99.6861%
I signed up for paid plan on Claude just 3 hours ago for the first time and was scratching my head on how that thing gets praised so much if I can't even send a question half of the time....
Perhaps I am taking this idea a bit too seriously but I imagine that it might not work because of VPN's.
but VPN's can be detected and perhaps already are by these AI companies and it can lead to the ban/restriction of an account so not many people would prefer to use VPN.
Then, theoretically speaking, I suppose that it might be possible to perhaps toggle off these AI companies for enterprises or licenses of dev's
Though I imagine that it would mean taking an ID and having a special dev tag so as to not remove the general purpose chat bots that these sites still operate.
I do imagine that it might be really interesting to have a single day where AI esp closed source is/are turned off and see how that pans out but looks like till then claude is sprinkling its downtime throughout any part of the day/month randomly with their downtimes.
I have two sessions going. One is fine, one keeps timing out. Both Opus 4.8 in Claude code in terminal. Must have them routed to different to different infra that isn’t equally impacted.
It would be hilarious if they don't know how to fix it because this was built by "running loops calling Claude" and they haven't the faintest idea of the present underlying architecture.
Protip: in the olden days we used to be able to read and write code ourselves. Worth trying while Claude is down! You might have fun and learn something!
I'm perfectly capable of programming without internet or AI but I would admit it would take longer and in the modern world we live in it's often not economical to do so. After programming for over 20 years you start to get in that flow automatically at least you used to do so. I don't know if people starting out to program will be able to, but most experienced developers will feel this way I assume.
> I'm perfectly capable of programming without internet
Me too, but let's be honest, I'm not talking about "Hello world!" experiments, I'm talking about developing usable software. I'm pretty sure, you won't be patching a Linux kernel driver on your own machine without googling stuff.
I've learned to code years before the Internet, but we've had it for so long, I'm honestly not sure anymore if I'm truly capable of building [real] stuff while offline. And I can't just ignore it, there's a feeling now, that with AI advancements, I may soon no longer be able to code efficiently without any AI.
It depends on the language but agreed. If I didn't have internet or AI access, I'd still be able to pull out manpages or dig into source code.
I wouldn't like it and it'd be slower, but I still understand my environment in sufficient depth to work without external info if I absolutely have to. Even with AI, once in a while I ask it to just give me some hints instead of solving something for me, so I'm forced to do the work.
Hey you. Touch grass. Go outside. If a minor downtime of a developer tool triggers you, it means you likely have heavy anxiety. Don’t worry about it and calm down.
Anthropic has massive capability issues due to massive user growth. It happens often when EU and US work hours collide. They have smart people working on it. Don’t waste your energy complaining.
I request an official statement from Anthropic explaining how they're going to limit outages in the future. Elevated errors almost always means its down for me and I can't be that unlucky statistically speaking. It seems that Anthropic does not have a good grip on the ops side of things.
God: so you thought you could create intelligence by just predicting the next token? Hilarious! I honestly had some good laughs but I'm going to pop that bubble now, though.
Is there any indication these errors are related to Anthropic-written code as opposed to operational issues from the fastest-growing infra buildout ever?
Layer-wise, the app is pretty far removed from request routing to GPU pools.
This is almost certainly a software issue, though. Even if it's due to scaling, they still built a system that failed catastrophically rather than degrading gracefully.
Right. If this were truly a pure scaling issue, I’d expect the interface would offer an archive.is-esque “Claude is at capacity; your prompt is #XXX/YYY in the queue; estimated time remaining: ZZZ seconds”
Instead, the whole system just shits the bed, catastrophically.
I wonder how they fix things when Claude is down.
I would bet that they have inference setup for internal use on a separate system from the customer-facing production environment. The same way telemetry infrastructure needs to be run separate from normal production systems, so you aren't "blind" when you need it most.
Based on this outage: not very well.
This is ( or will be in the future ) a surprisingly relevant issue
maybe they ask a secondary agentic system to fix it. will that be the future of “redundancy”?
"Gemini, fix my Claude infra"
lol probably use their dev or qa Claude environment to fix prod
Meh, this is the "must be the veganism" fallacy: if someone knows you're vegan, then any ailment you might have, no matter how ubiquitous in the population, must be somehow due to your vegan diet and no more details are required.
Except now it's the "AI did it" fallacy where if you know a company uses AI, even infra scaling issues must be due to AI, and if you had just used less or no AI, you would have been spared even though that has never been true.
The usual response to this goes something like "well they made claims that AI is good" therefore anything short of perfection supposedly debunks the claim.
If you go around bragging that you use AI for everything as part of your marketing plan, then don't be surprised that people blame you heavy AI usage when you have a problem.
This is not like that.
This is literally they saying they are letting their LLM run wild(ish) and seeing the status.claude.com we can see the result.
This is a case where the outcome is the direct result of the engineering practices like the ones they describe.
PS: Yes I use Claude, Coded, Amp and Cursor agents every day so I am not saying here LLMs are not valuable.
LE: They did not made claims that "AI is good" they made claims that developers/computer engineers are not needed anymore in the near future. Thats is a stronger claim and has a direct relation with a product they have which needs computer engineering (yes infra counts too) and which seems to be down more than we expect as a good quality bar.
You just said "it's not the 'must be veganism' thing, it's the 'must be veganism thing'"
Unless you have inside knowledge of their infra ops and management tools, it is just guessing and blaming veganism. For all we know it could be tools from Nvidia or anyone else failing under massive load.
It could be the veganism. Some things are. Leaping to it as the only possible explanation for every ailment is exactly the fallacy.
No. We dont need metaphors like that with veganism (which touches ideologies also) when talking about engineering and a company that promotes out loud that engineering is done.
I have not stated anything. I just replied to a metaphor which is not needed cause here we talk about engineering problems handled by engineers in a tech company. I give you something else where this line of thought could be wrong: culture beats (and destroys) engineering practices unless regulated by law. In this case yes this is not because of LLMs but because of company culture.
Still hard to know where the line draws because Anthropic talks about solving computer science for good as in humans need not apply.
Another data point: GitHub is extremely insistent its employees maximally use AI for internal development [0], and we’ve concomitantly seen its reliability fall off a cliff in the last year or so.
[0] https://github.com/resources/insights/ai-powered-workforce-p...
>GitHub is extremely insistent its employees maximally use AI for internal development
Or it could be that GitHub saw a 14x increase in commit volume last year[0], and we've concomitantly seen its reliability fall of a cliff in the last year or so. Given that Microsoft is leasing additional space on AWS(!)[1] to handle the additional commit volume, my personal money is on commit volume growth being a bigger issue than internal use of AI.
Internal use of AI may have been an issue. Commit volume growth may have been an issue. Unless one has direct knowledge of their infrastructure issues, claiming to know is quite literally making exactly the "they are vegan, their illness must be caused by their veganism" argument the GP commenter was talking about.
[0]https://daringfireball.net/linked/2026/05/04/commits-on-gith...
[1]https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-github-amazon-ai-c...
But it is like that. You have zero insight into the infrastructure issue. And the person quoted above is a Claude Code developer. So because this guy uses Claude generously to build Claude Code, then Anthropic's API scaling issues must necessarily be caused by his agent loops even though scaling issues plague every tech company, no less often pre-AI.
The issue is that it's a thought-terminating cliche, and it would be nice to have one place on the internet that isn't just who can post one the fastest with the most glee to the giddy seal-clapping of the audience.
Engineering practices or best practices are much more than writing code.
So not sure what we are debating here: I see first hand companies jumping full on using LLM for _everything_ for the last 6 months (of course Anthropic longer) and without guardrails and good engineering practices the number of incidents, downtime is increasing.
Look at status.claude.com - Anthropic could at any point come out and say all those are due to third party providers.
I am also not saying here Anthropic is worse than other scaleups. But they do something different: they come in front of us and tell us they have better engineering practices.
> Anthropic could at any point come out and say all those are due to third party providers.
Why can't it be simply the case that Anthropic is struggling by their own accord? Infra scaling isn't a solved problem, much less with new, complicated, ever-changing, stateful LLM requests.
Pretty much every API-service-based company I've worked at was in some constant state of either triaging or thinking about infrastructure health, often due to the age-old cascading problems in a necessarily distributed system.
There’s a difference between having normal levels of difficulty and bad luck, and having people blame those on the wrong thing, vs having extraordinarily miserable quality and having people find the obvious difference. Potentially yes, they might have terrible wiring in their office or a crippling fondness for vim. But if I were their PR department I’d be talking about that if it was the problem.
Ahem...
"Vegans and vegetarians may have higher stroke risk" - https://www.bbc.com/news/health-49579820
"Vegans had a 43% higher risk of fractures overall compared to nonvegetarians, as well as higher risks of hip, leg, and vertebral fractures." - https://sniglobal.org/plant-based-diets-and-fracture-risk/
"The Impact of a Vegan Diet on Many Aspects of Health: The Overlooked Side of Veganism" - https://www.cureus.com/articles/138315-the-impact-of-a-vegan...
"..people who followed a vegan diet had noticeably low levels of iodine in their bodies, an element that is essential for growth, bones, and brain function. In addition, vegans had lower bone health scores..." - https://www.bfr.bund.de/en/press-release/vegan-vegetarian-be...
There are a lot of nutritional blind spots in vegan diets. It is a diet that requires exceptional planning and intentionality to be at a baseline of health similar to a balanced omnivorous diet.
So indeed, the "it must be veganism" is not an unfounded concern when health complications arise, in a very similar way to "it must be the AI" is a valid concern when software issues arise.
On the other hand we are also willing to buy it, so reliability is arguably not as valued a good as people assumed.
I suppose it's a good time to encourage people trying out pi[1] with any cheap model from the openrouter rankings page[1].
[1] https://pi.dev/ [2] https://openrouter.ai/rankings
https://pi.dev/models is throwing an internal server error for me.
I just did a build in Nemesis8 (containerized agents) and Pi appears to be working fine. Opencode is a good choice too if you're interested in checking out GLM 5.2 from z.ai.
https://github.com/deepbluedynamics/nemesis8
Is pi better than opencode?
They are different models. OpenCode is trying to be a claude code/codex replacement, where-as pi is something you build yourself, kind of trying to be an emacs type thing compared to vs-code. As in emacs it is more common to write your own extensions, where as in vs-code most people just download them.
I keep butting into the question of; why opencode, when you've got codex available? Codex is open source as well, and i can't seem to picture a situation where one would want Opencode over Codex.
As far as I can tell, they tick the same boxes- but one has the support of a big boy model provider.
I like it.
One caveat is that it doesn't do MCP tools, but can wire them up with bash (or use CLIs if those are available).
Except I was having connection issue and errors through open router too
"curl -fsSL https://pi.dev/install.sh | sh" — seriously? That tells me a lot about the whole project, unfortunately.
I am genuinely curious what it tells you, as "curl https//.. | sh" has long been an enormously popular approach to distribution in the open source world. Homebrew, to name just one example, advertises a similar method.
(pi.sh also documents other install methods, like `npm`, on their homepage)
If trust and security is the issue, unfortunately "better" ideas like hashpipe [1] never achieved critical mass
What about better ideas like installing from source, or using a package manager? Or even flatpaks.
From source: creates much more work for the user.
Package managers: ecosystem is fragmented, requiring a long list of distro- and package-manager-specific instructions. Many scripts already install through package managers, they simply make the user’s life easier.
Flatpaks: These are clearly designed for desktop applications, with CLIs treated as an afterthought. They may be the best long-term hope, but today they are definitely not as convenient or widely available as a simple script.
If you care about adoption, `curl | sh` is the only real option today, which is why virtually all project show it as the first option.
Bullshit.
There's plenty of big projects that don't suggest you curl a script right into your shell.
If you have curl, you're probably on Linux. Just use the package manager like an adult.
The ideas aren't mutually exclusive, and I've never seen an open source project support "curl | sh" without also supporting those methods.
Indeed, plenty of these scripts often act as a "what OS and packager do we have" mux. Just look at the source of this one, for example.
When you support an open source project at scale and/or with less savvy users, you come to see the benefit of "here, just f'ing slam this into your shell and we'll figure it out" installers. I know I have.
Claude Code does it the same way (which doesn't excuse it obviously) but still.
curl -fsSL https://claude.ai/install.sh | bash
https://code.claude.com/docs/en/quickstart
Yep, that's not an excuse. Claude goes down all the time, should pi also go down?
Oh wait (from another comment under this article): > https://pi.dev/models is throwing an internal server error for me.
Seriously, what is the threat model here?
There is no threat model that doesn't also apply to pretty much every other distribution method.
It's just people who have internalized "don't paste commands from the Internet into your terminal" and aren't thinking about exactly what makes pasting commands from the Internet into your terminal dangerous, and how that applies to this specific case.
Nah bro package manager where you copy and paste their custom repo and key from the same website that hosts the `.sh` is definitely safer, trust me
/s
I get this, and would recently have had a similar reaction. But I have to ask: do you typically run your agent harness in yolo mode?
Yeah, totally reasonable comment given the utter security that must come from anthropic with their installer, amiright?
oh wait...
"curl -fsSL https://claude.ai/install.sh | bash"
(right from https://claude.com/product/claude-code)
Further - what the flicking fuck do you think an installer is going to do on your system? Not run any commands? Because I've written installers for every platform... they ALL can run commands.
So what exactly is the complaint in this comment? If you want to go read the install script - knock yourself out (or hell, point your agent at it...).
And you can simply look at the installer by pulling it up in the browser.
You can simply look at the installer by leaving off the "| bash".
it tells you they're just like basically every other CLI targeting project for the last 15 years? I mean is it a big security hole we all accept, yes, it is. But it's not really indicative of much. That's also how I install rust.
My dude - if you're going to trust them then you're going to trust them.
You think it's hard to obfuscate shell calls from inside a built executable?
What it tells us is that you're probably searching for reasons to grouse about AI.
both the Julia and Rust programming languages use curl -> sh to install
Both of them provide that option. I've never installed rust without a package manager. Why would I?
> Why would I?
Because then you can install it without depending on a package manager?
Yeah, from source in that case. Or using a verified binary if I absolutely had to.
Yes, if you want to, you can do that.
Understand that 99% are comfortable trusting downloads. They know that it's just as easy to sneak backdoors into source code as it is to sneak backdoors into executables.
See also: XZ hack.
In general I agree with you, but on the other hand it is an agentic coding agent you should have isolated in a container or VM anyway
Incredible how we can claim productivity increases when its either Claude or Github shitting the bed every other day. It must even itself out to a net neutral gain in the long term.
I don't understand this comment. At worst, we're just back to the baseline - working without AI help.
Yes, that's what the comment means.
We are back to the baseline. The availability of our tools isn't adding anything in the long term because the productivity increase we get from the tooling is negated by the time we're back to doing it the old fashioned way due to downtime, so there is no claimed productivity increase espoused by the pontificators of the tooling.
This is an argument for returning to living in caves and hunting mammoths for fear that our modern civilization becomes unavailable for a day or two.
I'm down
The bunch of MD files in the codebase is becoming "tech" debt. It's just English prose, sure, but thousands of lines of English prose. Terse. Succinct. Difficult (if not impossible) to maintain manually without LLMs. That's not "baseline"
Developers having a troubled relationship with documentation isn't new.
At some point it won't be true. Same with handwriting, nowadays I feel like a 7 y/o when I need to write something on a piece of paper...
The baseline is forever gone. Good luck convincing people to contribute to StackOverflow v2 after this.
With atrophy to our not-AI ability to do things
I don't buy it. Literacy rates have been increasing even after the invention of text to speech.
> Literacy rates have been increasing
uh
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2025/09/whats-driving...
https://literacybuffalo.org/2025/01/23/adult-literacy-rates-...
Both articles use 2017 as the turning point date. TTS is a lot older than that. It's not difficult to find data to fit the desired point if you choose a narrow enough time range. Or location selectivity - both of those are just about the United States.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cross-country-literacy-ra...
If that 0.07% downtime was holding me back I wouldn't publicly admit that.
When that downtime happens is way more important than the amount of it. Imagine if your payroll system was down for 8 hours a month, but it just so happened to be the day payroll do their calculations?
Totally. The uptime metrics are deceiving imo. A more useful measure for a productivity tool like Claude Code is uptime during work hours for a given time zone. I strongly suspect at least for the three US time zones, we would be looking at a single nine of uptime for that measure.
Claude is 0.89% downtime. Getting close to one nine.
There aren't many tools that remain useful at that rate.
Business/Office productivity tools can be productive at that rate. Core systems like ERP or arguably CRM can't, but MS Teams is probably already that low, Figma, Canva and several others could absolutely afford to be one nine before it affects their churn materially. I suspect OpenAI and Anthropic make most of their profit on business use cases rather than dev use cases (likely higher revenue but less profit) so this may be what sets the standard of uptime.
Heh, I’m 5x more productive 99 percent of the time. That is still a very, very useful tool.
That's two nines. One nine would be 10% downtime.
'Claude for Government' is the only one with 0.07% downtime, claude.ai has 0.89% downtime and claude code 0.74% - imo, that's a lot of downtime!
over a year, 0.89% is around 3 whole days of downtime
Works out at even more days when you consider working hours. And these downtime events never happen when I'm sleeping, always smack in the middle of the afternoon when I'm working.
Gotta keep my 100x developer cred, that 0.07% is everything.
I have been developing software since the late 80s, mostly CAM software for metal cutting machines, and I have been refereeing tabletop roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons since the late 70s.
I get the power of LLMs, and I do find them useful. But I find them useful in much the same way I find a really good set of random tables useful, or a good set of rules for procedurally generating something like a star sector for a science fiction campaign.
For my day job developing software, and for the RPG campaigns and books I run and publish today, LLMs are, in many cases, random tables on steroids. After using them for two years, even with all their improvements, I am continually reminded by the results I get that, at the heart of it, I am still dealing with what amounts to randomly generated content.
Yes, I know it is more accurate to call the process probabilistic rather than random. And yes, somebody can construct a technically deterministic setup with fixed weights, fixed seeds, fixed sampling parameters, and a frozen runtime environment. But that is like saying you can recreate a rainstorm if you get a thousand butterflies to flap their wings in exactly the right way. It may be technically true, but it is not how the technology behaves in normal day-to-day use.
For practical purposes, given the same prompt and the same apparent starting conditions, the result can differ each time you use a model. The outputs will often be highly correlated, and often useful, but they are not deterministic software in the ordinary sense.
So far, I am failing to see how the inherent probabilistic nature of the technology can be fully overcome. I understand how we got to where we are today from older neural net technology, including the systems used for vision and sound. What we have now can be very useful. But my view is that it is being badly oversold and overhyped. Its probabilistic nature is being vastly underestimated, and that is a major reason for much of the weirdness and many of the failures we keep seeing.
In tabletop roleplaying, there have been times when hobbyists relied too much on procedurally generated content and ultimately got burned by it, either through campaigns that were not as fun or products that were subpar. Each time, the lesson was the same: there is no substitute for human judgment.
Any workflow or technology incorporating LLMs has to keep humans in the loop, and not merely as rubber stamps. The human has to remain the primary decision maker.
I think we need to disqualify humans as well. Their brains have been shown to operate on probabilistic chemical interactions and even quantum effects.
Imagine a future where Anthropic holds your company hostage because no one can code properly anymore by hand and demands paying 200% higher price for the usage.
What can your company do?
I would guess that they would want to at the very least 10x their prices. Remember they need to make up for training, marketing, etc.. and make a big chunk of profit on top of that to justify their trillion dollar evaluation
doing 2x 3 times already gets you almost 10x increase
>> What can your company do?
Hire some Developers?
Developers who can code without LLMs will go extinct in couple years and there will be legends about them, you should at least have some decent open weight model as a backup
There is something to be said for how the technology stack keeps growing for businesses and what this might mean for the future.
Thirty years ago, you had an OS and you installed applications. No problem.
Later, you had to build and use apps on the internet, an infrastructure that is susceptible to DDOS attacks, government firewalls, and other security risks. Still fine, sort of.
Now, you not only have to build apps on the internet, you also have use LLMs to build apps to remain competitive with other developers. Future (human) maintainers of your code might not properly understand how it works, and if the providers of the LLMs screw up or go rogue, you are properly fucked.
There is a dependency/technology stack debt that is creating risks that need to be acknowledged.
I'm not sure if I'd want to code without an LLM anymore. That said, there will always be open models.
Wait a second kiddo, I expect to live longer than that.
I don't plan on using LLMs for programming any time soon.
And I know like one guy who does use them. He's not a developer by trade, he just has to write programs sometimes.
What exactly is a developer in a scenario where no one can code?
As long as I'm alive (and not senile) there will always be at least one developer who can code
I'm not using AI coding tools yet, and even if they force me at gunpoint to use them at work no one can force me to in my spare time
I'm not too worried about the case where no one can code anymore because that will be after I'm dead
I guess that means there will be at least two of us.
That wasn't the premise of the question.
My answer to your question is "I don't care, because I'll be dead"
Me?
No one can code. You can code.
Are you no one?
Only the Sith deal in absolutes
No need to make up speculative futures based on a company only giving one model to their employees. I use Codex, Antigravity, Claude and GLM-5.2 interchangeably. Any sensible employer will do the same.
> Any sensible employer will do the same.
Hard to do when each individual provider wants to lock your company into multiyear enterprise contracts.
You can still have multiple contracts.
the company will switch to a different LLM vendor??
what does someone do when a certain brand coffee maker keeps breaking; they buy a different brand.
Hire developers who will be happy to take merely 100% higher rates?
Use an Anthropic competitor?
Won't it eventually be $1,000 or $5,000 a month? $5k a month would still be 97% less than many developers cost.
How many developers are making 2 million a year?
400k isn’t crazy for the FANG set but it’s still a subset of the developer market and hundreds of thousands of those jobs have been cut in the last few years as they all collectively work to lower SWE pay.
60k a year it needs to be a full irreplaceable part of the infrastructure for I think. There are very few kinds of software that meet that bar right now (certain design tools etc that have no replacement). 12k/year is in the expensive but reasonable for the right tooling category (Matlab etc.).
I don’t know what the future holds. I know the big AI companies are banking on being able to charge for a replacement SWE that works 24/7. Still not convinced these are it yet, as useful as they can be under the right circumstances.
I've been a moderate on using LLMs for programming, but I think this is the straw that's going to send me entirely back to brain coding. It's just too annoying to have a dependency on the network and on a semi-unreliable service provider. I've also been worried about the potential for skill atrophy. Maybe I'll revisit the decision someday when I can run a useful model on modest hardware.
Actual 90d uptime: 97.6838% (calculated by Codex from live data)
So, only one 9 for 10x vibes.I want uptime modulo in my timezone/work hours. I don't give a shit about any 9's earned while I'm sleeping.
status.claude.com looks like a holiday christmas ornaments
Our team calls this "full three pepper blend" ;)
https://anthropicisdown.com/
Looks like Mike and Ike candy.
I signed up for paid plan on Claude just 3 hours ago for the first time and was scratching my head on how that thing gets praised so much if I can't even send a question half of the time....
That's just exceptionally unfortunate timing. Anthropic has been getting better at uptime, but they still have the occasional issue.
I had to log in to github and review a PR by hand just now. I felt like a savage again!
So can we hire back those Oracle workers to write some code now?
The rainbow has to keep being a rainbow.
ClaudeCode still has a 99.27 % uptime
ClaudeCowork has 99.52 % uptime
ClaudeForGovernment has 99.93 % uptime
I must be unlucky because I'm in that .73% way more than .73% of the time.
Has anyone noticed how changing the viewport changes the uptime percentage?
It's changing the number of days it's looking back from 90 days to 60 days on smaller viewports - the uptime reflects that.
They dynamically pick the number of days to display based on viewport size. Mobile = 30 days, tablet = 60 days etc.
Wonder if in the future that public holidays will = AI services being turned off by gov. killswitch, to encourage people to actually take time off.
Perhaps I am taking this idea a bit too seriously but I imagine that it might not work because of VPN's.
but VPN's can be detected and perhaps already are by these AI companies and it can lead to the ban/restriction of an account so not many people would prefer to use VPN.
Then, theoretically speaking, I suppose that it might be possible to perhaps toggle off these AI companies for enterprises or licenses of dev's
Though I imagine that it would mean taking an ID and having a special dev tag so as to not remove the general purpose chat bots that these sites still operate.
I do imagine that it might be really interesting to have a single day where AI esp closed source is/are turned off and see how that pans out but looks like till then claude is sprinkling its downtime throughout any part of the day/month randomly with their downtimes.
I have two sessions going. One is fine, one keeps timing out. Both Opus 4.8 in Claude code in terminal. Must have them routed to different to different infra that isn’t equally impacted.
It would be hilarious if they don't know how to fix it because this was built by "running loops calling Claude" and they haven't the faintest idea of the present underlying architecture.
:)
Maybe they have DeepSeek subscription for that occasion?
Getting consistent "API Error: 500 Internal server error" messages in Claude Code right now (10:20 AM EST)
Their completion endpoint[*] is returning 503 with a `fault filter abort` response
[*] https://claude.ai/api/organizations/<ORG_ID>/chat_conversations/<CONV_ID>/completion
for me it's
API Error: 529 Overloaded. This is a server-side issue, usually temporary — try again in a moment. If it persists, check https://status.claude.com.
What a coincidence, OpenAI is also down according to Downdetector.
Th is really not good advertisement for Claude-Oriented Programming
My claude status teams webhook says unicode character U+274C , usually on downtimes we get a U+1F7E1... let's see how this goes
And we're back. Nothing to see here...
Ohno we're not. Hokey Cokey time. 529 overloaded. Of course. Maybe a beer. It is hot after all.
Restarted my claude session, by killing my terminal, it worked
I was going to say the modern day equivalent of Github is down, but it's always down.
I always associate downtime like this with a new model rollout. Maybe we are getting Fable back.
Is it that time again?
Good opportunity to do some planning work.
I do that with Opus in plan mode..
Perhaps they are adding security controls to bring Fable back online? One can hope.
Mine went down mid-session and it just shows a JSON error lol, waiting for it to come back up to continue..
Good thing we have GLM-5.2
saw this comment on Reddit,
"it's look like when the lights turning off, we return to socialize lol"
Good break, time to catch up with the code
Appstoreconnect too
Who is GLM 5.2?
I'll do you one better! Why is GLM 5.2?
Where is GLM 5.2?
Smells like someone's gassing Mythos back up.
Protip: in the olden days we used to be able to read and write code ourselves. Worth trying while Claude is down! You might have fun and learn something!
Always good because people will look for and try alternatives.
Are you implying using their brains?
Another day, another Claude outage.
Goddamit, like losing the ability for coding without any Internet wasn't enough, now I have to forget how to code without Claude?
ps. if you say you still capable of developing software without the Internet, you're lying. Perhaps, to your own self.
I'm perfectly capable of programming without internet or AI but I would admit it would take longer and in the modern world we live in it's often not economical to do so. After programming for over 20 years you start to get in that flow automatically at least you used to do so. I don't know if people starting out to program will be able to, but most experienced developers will feel this way I assume.
> I'm perfectly capable of programming without internet
Me too, but let's be honest, I'm not talking about "Hello world!" experiments, I'm talking about developing usable software. I'm pretty sure, you won't be patching a Linux kernel driver on your own machine without googling stuff.
I've learned to code years before the Internet, but we've had it for so long, I'm honestly not sure anymore if I'm truly capable of building [real] stuff while offline. And I can't just ignore it, there's a feeling now, that with AI advancements, I may soon no longer be able to code efficiently without any AI.
It depends on the language but agreed. If I didn't have internet or AI access, I'd still be able to pull out manpages or dig into source code.
I wouldn't like it and it'd be slower, but I still understand my environment in sufficient depth to work without external info if I absolutely have to. Even with AI, once in a while I ask it to just give me some hints instead of solving something for me, so I'm forced to do the work.
Utter nonsense. If you can't figure out how to run your dev stack on your own computer, you're not worthy of calling yourself a software engineer.
L take. My last 2 companies had their environments spun up in cloud instances.
"Running your dev stack" is not the same as "developing [usable] software".
Hey you. Touch grass. Go outside. If a minor downtime of a developer tool triggers you, it means you likely have heavy anxiety. Don’t worry about it and calm down.
Anthropic has massive capability issues due to massive user growth. It happens often when EU and US work hours collide. They have smart people working on it. Don’t waste your energy complaining.
Cheers
It’s 36°C outside, I’d rather stay inside.
>> It’s 36°C outside
Yeah AI Data Centers do that....
Oh no, I have to write that marketing coordination email myself again!
I hear that 100% of code at Anthropic is coded by Claude, so this was caused by Claude. And also, no one but Claude can fix Claude
>> I hear that 100% of code at Anthropic is coded by Claude, so this was caused by Claude. And also, no one but Claude can fix Claude
Claude is down....
Don't worry they've got a dude named Claude they keep in the back just for occasions like this
Claude is just a tool. Garbage in, garbage out, blame management
I request an official statement from Anthropic explaining how they're going to limit outages in the future. Elevated errors almost always means its down for me and I can't be that unlucky statistically speaking. It seems that Anthropic does not have a good grip on the ops side of things.
I'm sure they'll get right on that for ya bud
Thanks for your contribution to this problem. Keen to see what you come up with next!
God: so you thought you could create intelligence by just predicting the next token? Hilarious! I honestly had some good laughs but I'm going to pop that bubble now, though.