This is so exciting. The only ones I know working on this are Boom (unless they’ve pivoted entirely into AI DC turbines). Between this and the wind-turbine-blade air transporter it’s an exciting time for aviation. Now if we can only transition off leaded fuel!
On one hand I think we should applaud when regulators target the specific issue (like noise or pollution level) vs using some other metric to achieve their desired outcome. On the other hand I don’t have a ton of faith that current administration will set the targets at levels that have the general public’s interest in mind
0.11 pound per square foot is what is being proposed. That's 108 decibels. Which is between standing next to a lawn mower and standing next to a car horn. I don't see how anyone will tolerate that in practice.
It’s not accurate to convert .1 psf to dB because it’s an impulsive shape, not a continuous tone. And human loudness perception depends on how smooth (low frequency) the shape is
There is a sonic boom carpet beyond the initial boom which is very loud even relative to the main boom. But even a half second of a car horn going off right next to you every so often is intolerable.
> no more skiing, endless smoke inhalation from wildfires, etc.
I wonder what our ancestors did, lets say 500 years back. Did they have wildfires? Skiing?
I get the point about humans causing unprecedented harm to the planet. However, the examples themselves are not perfect. I know skiing may be age old, but not as an activity enjoyed by millions, and the fact we build ski resorts may be contributing to some bad things, no?
If sonic booms become a routine occurrence over America, I expect to see a backlash against supersonic flight unifying everyone between chemtrail conspiracy theorists and the greenpeace. The anti data center backlash we have today will look like child's play.
The title of the article is misleading, there will still be booms:
> Several U.S. companies are working on a new generation of luxurious supersonic passenger aircraft with much quieter sonic booms and improved fuel efficiency
I was 100% in your camp until my neighbor bought an electric blower. The loud, high pitched whine is somehow louder and more ear piercing than a gas blower.
As I understand it the noise pollution stuff is due to really old tech. The new stuff should be much better performing to basically eliminate the sonic boom and the regulatory changes are reflecting that.
On a site like HN this kind of progress should be praised not denigrated as antisocial.
1. Better, real-time atmospheric data that allows use of boom-refraction flight profiles to prevent the boom reaching the ground. This is a trick that Concorde sometimes used when conditions were right, but only works up to about Mach 1.2. This is what Boom used for quieter flights.
2. Crazy 1950s-style airframe shaping with the X-59 that reduces boom but is impractical for an actual commercial transport. This is intended to establish a baseline for tolerable routine boom intensity, but we don't yet know how to make a commercial airframe with the same quietness.
It's reflective of the gradual dawning that while technology is amazing and exciting and can help people, under current systems it's more likely to be used to benefit the thousand or so richest people in the world and fuck everyone else over. Could we make supersonic jets more quiet and less disruptive? Yeah, probably. But why would a single cent be spent on that? The people flying in them don't give a single shit. They would only get quieter as a side effect of an improvement that somehow increases return.
My parents immigrated to the US in the 80s. They didn't steal anyone's land. Can I complain about rich people wasting fuel, polluting the air, and creating peace-shattering sounds?
And about the stolen land, what should we do about it? Never complain about anything? Have no laws?
Give all of your stolen land back, make all the reparations you owe people, and then go back to lecturing people online.
This is so exciting. The only ones I know working on this are Boom (unless they’ve pivoted entirely into AI DC turbines). Between this and the wind-turbine-blade air transporter it’s an exciting time for aviation. Now if we can only transition off leaded fuel!
On one hand I think we should applaud when regulators target the specific issue (like noise or pollution level) vs using some other metric to achieve their desired outcome. On the other hand I don’t have a ton of faith that current administration will set the targets at levels that have the general public’s interest in mind
0.11 pound per square foot is what is being proposed. That's 108 decibels. Which is between standing next to a lawn mower and standing next to a car horn. I don't see how anyone will tolerate that in practice.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/db
It’s not accurate to convert .1 psf to dB because it’s an impulsive shape, not a continuous tone. And human loudness perception depends on how smooth (low frequency) the shape is
Sorry can you explain more? I think it's just the definition of dB.
Because it's not continuous sound in one spot like a leaf blower is.
There is a sonic boom carpet beyond the initial boom which is very loud even relative to the main boom. But even a half second of a car horn going off right next to you every so often is intolerable.
> That's 108 decibels. > I don't see how anyone will tolerate that in practice.
Oh! Really?
https://earinc.com/gunfire-noise-level-reference-chart/
[flagged]
> no more skiing, endless smoke inhalation from wildfires, etc.
I wonder what our ancestors did, lets say 500 years back. Did they have wildfires? Skiing?
I get the point about humans causing unprecedented harm to the planet. However, the examples themselves are not perfect. I know skiing may be age old, but not as an activity enjoyed by millions, and the fact we build ski resorts may be contributing to some bad things, no?
Why are there multiple users with similar usernames posting hyper-negative comments?
If sonic booms become a routine occurrence over America, I expect to see a backlash against supersonic flight unifying everyone between chemtrail conspiracy theorists and the greenpeace. The anti data center backlash we have today will look like child's play.
Not sure how this does anything to alter the laws of physics. But I guess it's a step in the right direction.
The title of the article is misleading, there will still be booms:
> Several U.S. companies are working on a new generation of luxurious supersonic passenger aircraft with much quieter sonic booms and improved fuel efficiency
They’re no longer sonic booms under the appropriate conditions. They still make some noise, as does, for example, high speed rail.
If you really want to make an impact on the noise floor, ban gasoline leaf blowers.
I was 100% in your camp until my neighbor bought an electric blower. The loud, high pitched whine is somehow louder and more ear piercing than a gas blower.
As someone who grew up near an US military base with constant low altitude aircraft noise: No thank you, I'd prefer the leaf blower any time.
Air quality, too. Leaf blowers re-suspend carcinogens like brake dust and other fine particulate matter. Honestly just an awful practice all around.
>> ban gasoline leaf blowers
These things are indeed "The Devil's Hairdryer"
The proposed limit is around the level of standing right next to a leaf blower.
That's fine. The occasional boom, assuming business success this time, will last a few seconds. Leaf blowers last for hours in some neighborhoods.
It's not the hearing damage, it's the psychological stress.
Weed wackers too
[flagged]
As I understand it the noise pollution stuff is due to really old tech. The new stuff should be much better performing to basically eliminate the sonic boom and the regulatory changes are reflecting that.
On a site like HN this kind of progress should be praised not denigrated as antisocial.
The 'new stuff' is split into two categories:
1. Better, real-time atmospheric data that allows use of boom-refraction flight profiles to prevent the boom reaching the ground. This is a trick that Concorde sometimes used when conditions were right, but only works up to about Mach 1.2. This is what Boom used for quieter flights.
2. Crazy 1950s-style airframe shaping with the X-59 that reduces boom but is impractical for an actual commercial transport. This is intended to establish a baseline for tolerable routine boom intensity, but we don't yet know how to make a commercial airframe with the same quietness.
Nothing is really new.
It's reflective of the gradual dawning that while technology is amazing and exciting and can help people, under current systems it's more likely to be used to benefit the thousand or so richest people in the world and fuck everyone else over. Could we make supersonic jets more quiet and less disruptive? Yeah, probably. But why would a single cent be spent on that? The people flying in them don't give a single shit. They would only get quieter as a side effect of an improvement that somehow increases return.
Seriously what has happened to HN? This is ridiculous? are these genuine posts or some attack by bad actors to destroy a community.
Go back to reddit to post your anti progress stuff. HN was supposed to be about tech and startups and improving the world.
It's basically unbearable at this point. Every single thread is full of this stuff. It's incredibly sad.
[flagged]
No NIMBYism on stolen land.
Put that on a T-shirt!
My parents immigrated to the US in the 80s. They didn't steal anyone's land. Can I complain about rich people wasting fuel, polluting the air, and creating peace-shattering sounds?
And about the stolen land, what should we do about it? Never complain about anything? Have no laws?
Give all of your stolen land back, make all the reparations you owe people, and then go back to lecturing people online.
By immigrating, your parents(and you) took on the shared responsibility for the countries wrongdoings and great deeds.
When people talk about this stuff, it isn't about apportioning blame.
I'm not big on the stolen land thing because it's turtles all the way down, but this idea of divvying up blame makes no sense. We are all citizens.
If anything the parents have more responsibility by making a conscious choice vs simply being born in the US.
I don't agree with this point of view either.
Nimbyism is generally against a public good (low income housing, powerlines, etc)but there is nothing public or good about this.
Calling this nimbyism is billionaire psyop lol
Their claim is the boom won't actually reach ground level for overland flights due to how they're profiled.
Of course that's the theory. The Trump Admin just allowed for a fairly audible boom.