I wonder what is the contextualization of the OP's preference of the "Palantir as a data/power broker" narrative to that of "Palantir as a highly profitable staffing agency".
I found it to have just enough substance to make me take a look at what Nym VPN is, because I'd rather not give money to Mullvad any more, but the VPN looks like something for shilling crypto.
Nym is pretty complicated and although they offer some kind of traditional VPN service as well IIRC, their main product is actually the only large scale operational "mixnet", which you can think of as kinda similar to Tor but a lot more resistant to certain types of deanonymization attacks (specifically it's designed to be safe against passive global adversaries, ie an attacker who can monitor every packet on the internet, though with the default settings at least it's not quite there yet: https://petsymposium.org/popets/2026/popets-2026-0055.php).
The research behind the mixnet is quite legit (look up Loopix). There's cryptocurrency involved because they're trying to do this whole complicated thing to incentivize people to operate nodes in the mixnet (though who are we kidding, the real reason is to make money). One can argue this is good for the long term sustainability of the network, and helps prevent sybil attacks by encouraging a large number of legitimate nodes. Of course, the downside is that the company is trying to make money, not just make the best mixnet possible. Having a profit motive also means they're incentivized to get the network to a point where interactive usage works well even at the price of anonymity (an optimization in this vein is sorta the reason that the paper I linked above is possible).
But having a working mixnet at all is extremely cool. People have been researching mixnets for decades without producing anything practical. While Nym is by far the most deployed / most ready mixnet rn, there thankfully are other options coming up, like https://katzenpost.network/ (though I believe most of the devs behind Katzenpost are also in some VC-funded situation, they certainly at least are trying to position katzenpost as more of a community driven project).
Unfortunately most of the discussion on that thread is Americans arguing about what right and left are. I personally don't care whether Americans think that party is right wing or left wing, but I find their rhetoric about migrants utterly abhorrent.
The internet is going to turn into a control mechanism if we don't equalize the power dynamic and build things that make it easy to empower the individual.
> The internet is going to turn into a control mechanism if we don't equalize the power dynamic and build things that make it easy to empower the individual.
That was my extrapolated common theme I gathered from the author. I just didn't understand how a common theme couldn't be drawn from the contents of the article.
My strong feeling while reading this “philosopher CEO”’s manifesto: consumer VPNs primarily help customers fight for their right to stream Netflix. This doesn’t strike me as effective advertisement.
>> Unlike the generations that fought in the world wars, most of our current rulers are degenerate pedophiles who would sacrifice the well-being of the youth and the entire planet due to their infantile desire for wealth and power. Technologies of surveillance and automated warfare reflect their increasingly desperate attempts to maintain archaic forms of domination.
Tell us what you think, Harry, please don’t hold back
the author lost me at "muh immigrants". stopped reading. its like the only people who agree with me on resisting evil tech companies and surveillance ai are open borders fanatics who refuse to accept that regulating who is able to access your home is something that people have always done. go on and "resist" big tech for the poor immigrants sake while big tech and every other corporation goes out of its way to replace you with cheaper labor in the form of illegal migrants, scammy visa guest workers, foreign labor, etc.
> 19. America created the first global surveillance state, but it will not be the last. Too many have forgotten, or perhaps taken for granted, the revelations of Wikileaks and Snowden. States across the world from China to Russia are creating even more powerful global surveillance systems and propaganda machines. Leveraging private defense contracts in countries across the world, Palantir seeks to make itself the operating system of a cross-border global secret state while it pushes its own farcical version of ethno-nationalism.
If you're honestly thinking the US surveillance state is used to the same extent that those in China and Russia are to act upon enemies of the state at home and abroad, it makes me take you less seriously.
Could it be? Absolutely. Would Alex Karp gladly direct his company to program it even if it imprisoned/killed his own family for the benefit of shareholders? Probably. But when SCOTUS just told the government this week that they need warrants for geofenced surveillance operations, this doesn't point to the existence of a surveillance state like that in those nations. At least, not yet.
How hot does the water need to be before you raise the alarm?
I think there is value in pointing out trend lines and voicing opposition even if there are other countries that have more authoritarian views on speech. This is not a competition, what matters is the experience of the people in the country today not the fact that if they moved to Russia it would be worse. What is important is that the US state has both gained capabilities to act that way, and has shown predilections for it.
Texas just gave a man 30 years for transporting zines because of the politics of those zines. The trend lines are potentially very bad. And it only gets harder to reverse if the concerned people are right; would you just say “I don’t think it can happen here” and have people wait until it does and delay talking about it until we are not allowed?
You have to hold elected and appointed leaders to account.
That means going to a voting site on each and every election day (I don't care if it's for dog catcher and only dog catcher) and voting even if candidates aren't perfect. It means making it clear that the three boxes of liberty will be used by the people to make sure that their rights are protected.
In the US, we still have some ability to do what I mentioned. There just doesn't seem to be any will to do it.
Surveillance networks are commonplace throughout history. Classic examples include Renaissance Italian networks in Europe, Egyptian networks operating in the Levant, Nazi networks in Europe and the UK, and so many more.
Did the US bring technology to the game? Yes. Were they the first global surveillance state, no. Are they the first to bifurcate by legal statute domestic and foreign intelligence? Yes, and with Congressional and Judicial oversight I might add.
> 5. Surveillance can only be defeated by building software and hardware to defend ourselves.
Here's where it went off the rails. Once you've abandoned the idea of democracy and peaceful self-governance, you're just another technofascist. You are Palantir, just in an earlier stage.
I don't think you have to abandon the idea of democracy and peaceful self-governance to build software good for defending common values. Why do you think this?
I would say that all forms of incipient fascism and totalitarianism can really only be stopped by a motivated populace willing to step away from feelings of safety, from their endless entertainment, and embrace a bit of risk and stand up physically to their governments an yell at the top of their lungs: NO!
Sitting in your cozy home coding and thinking you are making a difference is bullshit. We are physical beings who ultimately fear physical violence from those who would oppress us. The response must be physical. Stand up, protest, make noise.
People no longer believe in the possibility of reforming institutions or good governance. Most people believe all politicians -- all of them -- are con men, liars, degenerates, or incompetents, and that nothing good can be achieved through political means.
I think it's a sign that we're further down the decay slope than we think.
It has anti-palantir in the title, so, yes it is anti-palantir. That's the point. What about it seems anti-american though? The values this page opposes don't look like anything america was ever supposed to be about, and certainly aren't the values of anyone I respect. Even if this page is trying to do right by the entire world, it is about as american as it gets; to invoke the Commonwealth of Virginia since 1776, thus always to tyrants.
You might want to update yourself on what's happening in the USA too - 'Zine publisher sentenced to 50 years in prison for "material support to terrorists"':
Instead of "this is bad, let's fix it" you say "that other thing is worse so let's leave this the way it is (I'm profiting from it or, even more pathetic, I wish I could profit from it)".
The fear of an imminent surveillance state just rings so hollow to me. It used to appeal to me as an existential threat, but then real world experience made me realize how implausible this is, not due to technological limitations but political will.
We already have surveillance states. Walk into any chain drug store in the country and you'll be met with cameras tracking your every movement, deodorant under lock and key and a security guard at the door. You walk in and the overseers know who you are and track your every move.
However, people walk in to drug stores every day and walk out with stuff. They're often unmasked and repeat offenders. The drug store chain gladly hands over all identifying information to police as well as their patterns. Yet nothing happens.
People comment on forums exactly how and where scams take place. YouTubers bait car and package thieves within hours. Whenever a horrific crime occurs, 9 times out of 10 the perpetrator has had dozens of arrests.
> The “enemy within” continually expands until it encompasses the entire population of a nation regardless of their status and beliefs, justifying evermore paranoid and totalizing surveillance.
So the police doesn't go after known criminals who have been arrested for the umpteenth time, but I'm made to believe they're about to come after me any day now for my innocuous offense, they just need one more Palantir camera.
Be real, there's just no political will to enable a police state.
So now on to technology. Technology should make our lives better. Police should use it to capture and stop the 1% of the population that's making life much more difficult for the rest of us. And they should lock them up for a considerable amount of time, not as rehabilitation or punishment, just to make the lives of ~99% of us better off. Maybe not 3 strikes, but can we settle on 10? 20? Anything would help.
So these theoretical arguments about a surveillance state where some hypothetical political dissident is getting doxed and raided just strikes me as fantasy.
> Police should use it to capture and stop the 1% of the population that's making life much more difficult for the rest of us. And they should lock them up for a considerable amount of time, not as rehabilitation or punishment, just to make the lives of ~99% of us better off. Maybe not 3 strikes, but can we settle on 10? 20? Anything would help.
criminals are not out there making life difficult for you. you are far more likely to die in a car crash than a repeat offender that you don't know. this complaint is a subjective truth blithered from behind a keyboard.
> So these theoretical arguments about a surveillance state where some hypothetical political dissident is getting doxed and raided just strikes me as fantasy.
we know this is what they do, and we know this is what palantir does in other countries to help governments oppress civilians. that is the product. that is why it is worrying to see it used here.
Sure I'm unlikely to be murdered by some rando. But I have gotten my packages and bike stolen. I've been accosted on public transportation. Been threatened by homeless junkies. I've had to cross the street to keep my kids from seeing some unspeakable sight.
And then there's the minor inconveniences, too many to worth mentioning. These are the things that affect my life.
I could care less about someone whose daily routine involved "patrolling for ICE". I don't see myself trying to purposely obstruct law enforcement so maybe I can't empathize. I just don't see "professional agitateur" in my future so I focus on things that affect me.
This is more to the point, I think. You have a number of different minor inconveniences that you think are worth locking humans up for life for, and also you don't care about people who are not you even if they are not doing anything wrong. That doesn't make for a set of long-term legislative principles that would make a society work because they would be structurally sociopathic.
Among persons admitted to state prison in 2014 across 34 states, 77% had five or more prior arrests in their criminal history, including the arrest that resulted in their prison sentence.
About half of persons admitted in 2014 were released by the end of 2015. Among these released persons, over half (59%) were arrested at least once within 2 years, including 16% for a violent offense. Forty-two percent were arrested for a public order offense within 2 years of release, making it the most common arrest offense for the 2014 admission cohort.
The number of prisoners that have had 15 or more prior arrests is over 26%
A Surveillance state is not the same as police state. We already live in a surveillance state, but we are protected by three things:
1. The cost of arrest. Actually sending someone to pick the person up and put them in handcuffs, process and change them.
2. The cost of prosecution. Having lawyers build a case, schedule a judge and courtroom.
3. The cost of enforcement. Putting someone in prison or threatening to put them in prison if they don't pay back what is stolen. Tracking if they paid it back. If they get probation it is cheaper but a probation officer is required.
These are expensive and use limited resources. Policing and governments prioritize these resources for more serious crimes like murder. Constitutional rights, including due process dramatically increase these costs. Mass surveillance made investigation and determining who did what for minor crimes done in public much much cheaper, so we just hit the next cost bottleneck.
The solution to the enforcement bottleneck is automated enforcement. This will likely be rolled out over the next ten to twenty years. If you steal from a store, you get banned from the entire story chain. This means living life very difficult, so you pay a fine. It is likely that stores will make lots of mistakes and flag innocent people, but most people will pay the fine because it is more convenient.
The situation is entirely different in a police state with no constitutional protections. The government can simply lock you out of everything you need to live because you did buy enough Dear Leader portraits this quarter. You can't use your car, can't call a ride share, can't catch a bus, can't buy food, can't get electricity to heat your house to keep your family comfortable. Instead of a fine, you need to walk to closest detention center, confess your guilt, lock yourself in and do manual labor and reeducation until the state allows you to leave. This system requires no guards.
It's not about the minor offenses of uninteresting people, but what happens because a change in political orientation makes you suddenly interesting. Even more so when AI automates this: Dear computer, we just got some ruling to remove citizenship of people that were not born in the country if they commit event the stupidest offenses: Go look them up.
It makes no sense for the authoritarian to anger everyone at once, but if you just convince people that complaining is bad for them, or expressing negative affect against the government, they can ge much done with little, and it doesn't take that much surveillance. We are already seeing governments that pursue their enemies to the fullest extent of the law for things that are, at best, dubious. Automation just makes this easier to do.
Perhaps the shoplifters are less iportant to the surveillance state than the people protesting government abuse and getting chased around the country to their workplaces and vacation hotels?
Street crime is tangible, visceral, and visible. When someone physically accosts you or physically invades your space, you feel it.
Incestuous "robber baron" state-capitalism that privatizes gains and socializes losses, or outright white-collar crime, are not so tangible. You don't see it or feel it. It doesn't feel as invasive.
It's worse though, with the only exception being violent crime against your body. It does more actual damage over a longer term.
1) We DO actually need to detect crime if we are going to fight it. Sticking our heads in the dirt and strapping a sign to our rear end saying "no surveillance" may feel good, but it does nothing for the victims of crime.
2) The anti-Palantir cries are funded in part by state actors whose operations are constrained by technology that detects and predicts their actions.
The quantity of anti-Palantir, anti-America and anti-American ally threads on HN has grown substantially. YCombinator and HN owe something to this country for setting conditions for their success. How about returning the favor though diligence in moderating HN?
I wonder what is the contextualization of the OP's preference of the "Palantir as a data/power broker" narrative to that of "Palantir as a highly profitable staffing agency".
> These are my personal beliefs, not those of Nym.
Why are you posting this on your company's site, littered with ads for the company's product?
Post it on a personal blog, or just say that these indeed are the company's beliefs.
Because he is selling VPN. This is an advertorial, including using techniques like “darkened” image of the adversary to make them look like a villain.
Why the hell is this flagged? It's definitely a relevant topic.
I had high expectations, there’s a lot of interesting content in this topic, but this is 22 points of low-substance buzzwording.
There’s no common theme, very little justification of any of the claims, and frankly very little to do with palantir
I found it to have just enough substance to make me take a look at what Nym VPN is, because I'd rather not give money to Mullvad any more, but the VPN looks like something for shilling crypto.
Nym is pretty complicated and although they offer some kind of traditional VPN service as well IIRC, their main product is actually the only large scale operational "mixnet", which you can think of as kinda similar to Tor but a lot more resistant to certain types of deanonymization attacks (specifically it's designed to be safe against passive global adversaries, ie an attacker who can monitor every packet on the internet, though with the default settings at least it's not quite there yet: https://petsymposium.org/popets/2026/popets-2026-0055.php).
The research behind the mixnet is quite legit (look up Loopix). There's cryptocurrency involved because they're trying to do this whole complicated thing to incentivize people to operate nodes in the mixnet (though who are we kidding, the real reason is to make money). One can argue this is good for the long term sustainability of the network, and helps prevent sybil attacks by encouraging a large number of legitimate nodes. Of course, the downside is that the company is trying to make money, not just make the best mixnet possible. Having a profit motive also means they're incentivized to get the network to a point where interactive usage works well even at the price of anonymity (an optimization in this vein is sorta the reason that the paper I linked above is possible).
But having a working mixnet at all is extremely cool. People have been researching mixnets for decades without producing anything practical. While Nym is by far the most deployed / most ready mixnet rn, there thankfully are other options coming up, like https://katzenpost.network/ (though I believe most of the devs behind Katzenpost are also in some VC-funded situation, they certainly at least are trying to position katzenpost as more of a community driven project).
The best thing about AI is how it’s pulled the rug out from under most of the crypto shilling universe.
Thanks for the in-depth context, really appreciate it.
[dead]
> because I'd rather not give money to Mullvad any more
?????? Why?
Front page HN 2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469
One of the two Mullvad founders and shareholders provides 70% of a Swedish far-right political party's funding.
Ah, thank you for this.
Someone flagged you, so I vouched.
Unfortunately most of the discussion on that thread is Americans arguing about what right and left are. I personally don't care whether Americans think that party is right wing or left wing, but I find their rhetoric about migrants utterly abhorrent.
Why can't you see the common theme?
The internet is going to turn into a control mechanism if we don't equalize the power dynamic and build things that make it easy to empower the individual.
Build for the common man, not the vampire.
> The internet is going to turn into a control mechanism if we don't equalize the power dynamic and build things that make it easy to empower the individual.
What does that have to do with Palantir?
Palantir was not even what my reply was about?
That was my extrapolated common theme I gathered from the author. I just didn't understand how a common theme couldn't be drawn from the contents of the article.
[dead]
My strong feeling while reading this “philosopher CEO”’s manifesto: consumer VPNs primarily help customers fight for their right to stream Netflix. This doesn’t strike me as effective advertisement.
I assume any such VPN keeps logs on me and turns them over to information brokers and ultimately the state.
Since all the top comments so far are skeptical of the post or in favor of Palantir, let's just say, irregardless of everything else:
Fuck Palantir and fuck Peter Thiel.
And fuck you to who flagged the article.
>> Unlike the generations that fought in the world wars, most of our current rulers are degenerate pedophiles who would sacrifice the well-being of the youth and the entire planet due to their infantile desire for wealth and power. Technologies of surveillance and automated warfare reflect their increasingly desperate attempts to maintain archaic forms of domination.
Tell us what you think, Harry, please don’t hold back
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You might have missed the Epstein files. Rings a bell?
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the author lost me at "muh immigrants". stopped reading. its like the only people who agree with me on resisting evil tech companies and surveillance ai are open borders fanatics who refuse to accept that regulating who is able to access your home is something that people have always done. go on and "resist" big tech for the poor immigrants sake while big tech and every other corporation goes out of its way to replace you with cheaper labor in the form of illegal migrants, scammy visa guest workers, foreign labor, etc.
> 19. America created the first global surveillance state, but it will not be the last. Too many have forgotten, or perhaps taken for granted, the revelations of Wikileaks and Snowden. States across the world from China to Russia are creating even more powerful global surveillance systems and propaganda machines. Leveraging private defense contracts in countries across the world, Palantir seeks to make itself the operating system of a cross-border global secret state while it pushes its own farcical version of ethno-nationalism.
If you're honestly thinking the US surveillance state is used to the same extent that those in China and Russia are to act upon enemies of the state at home and abroad, it makes me take you less seriously.
Could it be? Absolutely. Would Alex Karp gladly direct his company to program it even if it imprisoned/killed his own family for the benefit of shareholders? Probably. But when SCOTUS just told the government this week that they need warrants for geofenced surveillance operations, this doesn't point to the existence of a surveillance state like that in those nations. At least, not yet.
How hot does the water need to be before you raise the alarm?
I think there is value in pointing out trend lines and voicing opposition even if there are other countries that have more authoritarian views on speech. This is not a competition, what matters is the experience of the people in the country today not the fact that if they moved to Russia it would be worse. What is important is that the US state has both gained capabilities to act that way, and has shown predilections for it.
Texas just gave a man 30 years for transporting zines because of the politics of those zines. The trend lines are potentially very bad. And it only gets harder to reverse if the concerned people are right; would you just say “I don’t think it can happen here” and have people wait until it does and delay talking about it until we are not allowed?
Your comment is not responsive to the comment you replied to, which was a critique of point 19.
The alarm's been raised for a while now.
You have to hold elected and appointed leaders to account.
That means going to a voting site on each and every election day (I don't care if it's for dog catcher and only dog catcher) and voting even if candidates aren't perfect. It means making it clear that the three boxes of liberty will be used by the people to make sure that their rights are protected.
In the US, we still have some ability to do what I mentioned. There just doesn't seem to be any will to do it.
The book “IBM and the Holocaust” is instructive here.
These are simply tools, AI and surveillance tools included.
Tools can and are used for evil.
Some tools are much easier to use for evil. Tabulating and data processing is one of them. It makes conducting mass scale atrocity a lot easier.
Simply false.
Surveillance networks are commonplace throughout history. Classic examples include Renaissance Italian networks in Europe, Egyptian networks operating in the Levant, Nazi networks in Europe and the UK, and so many more.
Did the US bring technology to the game? Yes. Were they the first global surveillance state, no. Are they the first to bifurcate by legal statute domestic and foreign intelligence? Yes, and with Congressional and Judicial oversight I might add.
> 5. Surveillance can only be defeated by building software and hardware to defend ourselves.
Here's where it went off the rails. Once you've abandoned the idea of democracy and peaceful self-governance, you're just another technofascist. You are Palantir, just in an earlier stage.
I don't think you have to abandon the idea of democracy and peaceful self-governance to build software good for defending common values. Why do you think this?
I would say that all forms of incipient fascism and totalitarianism can really only be stopped by a motivated populace willing to step away from feelings of safety, from their endless entertainment, and embrace a bit of risk and stand up physically to their governments an yell at the top of their lungs: NO!
Sitting in your cozy home coding and thinking you are making a difference is bullshit. We are physical beings who ultimately fear physical violence from those who would oppress us. The response must be physical. Stand up, protest, make noise.
People no longer believe in the possibility of reforming institutions or good governance. Most people believe all politicians -- all of them -- are con men, liars, degenerates, or incompetents, and that nothing good can be achieved through political means.
I think it's a sign that we're further down the decay slope than we think.
Blogger has thoughts. World continues to spin.
Europe and Asia have it much much worse than we do on the surveillance state.
Ask anyone in jail for social media posts in the UK.
Ask any Chinese citizen about their social score and how it's adjusted.
So this sounds like an Anti-American and Anti-Palantir rant.
It has anti-palantir in the title, so, yes it is anti-palantir. That's the point. What about it seems anti-american though? The values this page opposes don't look like anything america was ever supposed to be about, and certainly aren't the values of anyone I respect. Even if this page is trying to do right by the entire world, it is about as american as it gets; to invoke the Commonwealth of Virginia since 1776, thus always to tyrants.
You might want to update yourself on what's happening in the USA too - 'Zine publisher sentenced to 50 years in prison for "material support to terrorists"':
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/jun/...
don't conflate anti-specific corporation with anti-american, that's what they want from you
[dead]
Yes, its exactly that. Its time HN - like X - posts the countries where its posts originate.
Congratulations. You're a what-about-er.
Instead of "this is bad, let's fix it" you say "that other thing is worse so let's leave this the way it is (I'm profiting from it or, even more pathetic, I wish I could profit from it)".
[dead]
The fear of an imminent surveillance state just rings so hollow to me. It used to appeal to me as an existential threat, but then real world experience made me realize how implausible this is, not due to technological limitations but political will.
We already have surveillance states. Walk into any chain drug store in the country and you'll be met with cameras tracking your every movement, deodorant under lock and key and a security guard at the door. You walk in and the overseers know who you are and track your every move.
However, people walk in to drug stores every day and walk out with stuff. They're often unmasked and repeat offenders. The drug store chain gladly hands over all identifying information to police as well as their patterns. Yet nothing happens.
People comment on forums exactly how and where scams take place. YouTubers bait car and package thieves within hours. Whenever a horrific crime occurs, 9 times out of 10 the perpetrator has had dozens of arrests.
> The “enemy within” continually expands until it encompasses the entire population of a nation regardless of their status and beliefs, justifying evermore paranoid and totalizing surveillance.
So the police doesn't go after known criminals who have been arrested for the umpteenth time, but I'm made to believe they're about to come after me any day now for my innocuous offense, they just need one more Palantir camera.
Be real, there's just no political will to enable a police state.
So now on to technology. Technology should make our lives better. Police should use it to capture and stop the 1% of the population that's making life much more difficult for the rest of us. And they should lock them up for a considerable amount of time, not as rehabilitation or punishment, just to make the lives of ~99% of us better off. Maybe not 3 strikes, but can we settle on 10? 20? Anything would help.
So these theoretical arguments about a surveillance state where some hypothetical political dissident is getting doxed and raided just strikes me as fantasy.
> Police should use it to capture and stop the 1% of the population that's making life much more difficult for the rest of us. And they should lock them up for a considerable amount of time, not as rehabilitation or punishment, just to make the lives of ~99% of us better off. Maybe not 3 strikes, but can we settle on 10? 20? Anything would help.
criminals are not out there making life difficult for you. you are far more likely to die in a car crash than a repeat offender that you don't know. this complaint is a subjective truth blithered from behind a keyboard.
> So these theoretical arguments about a surveillance state where some hypothetical political dissident is getting doxed and raided just strikes me as fantasy.
https://www.npr.org/2026/03/04/nx-s1-5717031/ice-dhs-immigra...
we know this is what they do, and we know this is what palantir does in other countries to help governments oppress civilians. that is the product. that is why it is worrying to see it used here.
Sure I'm unlikely to be murdered by some rando. But I have gotten my packages and bike stolen. I've been accosted on public transportation. Been threatened by homeless junkies. I've had to cross the street to keep my kids from seeing some unspeakable sight.
And then there's the minor inconveniences, too many to worth mentioning. These are the things that affect my life.
I could care less about someone whose daily routine involved "patrolling for ICE". I don't see myself trying to purposely obstruct law enforcement so maybe I can't empathize. I just don't see "professional agitateur" in my future so I focus on things that affect me.
This is more to the point, I think. You have a number of different minor inconveniences that you think are worth locking humans up for life for, and also you don't care about people who are not you even if they are not doing anything wrong. That doesn't make for a set of long-term legislative principles that would make a society work because they would be structurally sociopathic.
All of your arguments are broad, baseless, and trivially disprovable.
There absolutely is political will to enable a police state, and history absolutely rhymes.
> trivially disprovable
Then disprove it.
Here's some data around catch and release:
Among persons admitted to state prison in 2014 across 34 states, 77% had five or more prior arrests in their criminal history, including the arrest that resulted in their prison sentence.
About half of persons admitted in 2014 were released by the end of 2015. Among these released persons, over half (59%) were arrested at least once within 2 years, including 16% for a violent offense. Forty-two percent were arrested for a public order offense within 2 years of release, making it the most common arrest offense for the 2014 admission cohort.
The number of prisoners that have had 15 or more prior arrests is over 26%
https://mleverything.substack.com/p/acceptance-of-crime-is-a...
77% != 9 out of 10 and 5 != dozens. Seems like you’re doing a good job of disproving your own exaggerated claims.
You must not be familiar w/ the English language and common colloquialisms. So I'd sit this one out.
A Surveillance state is not the same as police state. We already live in a surveillance state, but we are protected by three things:
1. The cost of arrest. Actually sending someone to pick the person up and put them in handcuffs, process and change them.
2. The cost of prosecution. Having lawyers build a case, schedule a judge and courtroom.
3. The cost of enforcement. Putting someone in prison or threatening to put them in prison if they don't pay back what is stolen. Tracking if they paid it back. If they get probation it is cheaper but a probation officer is required.
These are expensive and use limited resources. Policing and governments prioritize these resources for more serious crimes like murder. Constitutional rights, including due process dramatically increase these costs. Mass surveillance made investigation and determining who did what for minor crimes done in public much much cheaper, so we just hit the next cost bottleneck.
The solution to the enforcement bottleneck is automated enforcement. This will likely be rolled out over the next ten to twenty years. If you steal from a store, you get banned from the entire story chain. This means living life very difficult, so you pay a fine. It is likely that stores will make lots of mistakes and flag innocent people, but most people will pay the fine because it is more convenient.
The situation is entirely different in a police state with no constitutional protections. The government can simply lock you out of everything you need to live because you did buy enough Dear Leader portraits this quarter. You can't use your car, can't call a ride share, can't catch a bus, can't buy food, can't get electricity to heat your house to keep your family comfortable. Instead of a fine, you need to walk to closest detention center, confess your guilt, lock yourself in and do manual labor and reeducation until the state allows you to leave. This system requires no guards.
Ever wonder why they let those criminals seemingly get away with it?
Think one extra step ahead.
Just state your argument.
It's not about the minor offenses of uninteresting people, but what happens because a change in political orientation makes you suddenly interesting. Even more so when AI automates this: Dear computer, we just got some ruling to remove citizenship of people that were not born in the country if they commit event the stupidest offenses: Go look them up.
It makes no sense for the authoritarian to anger everyone at once, but if you just convince people that complaining is bad for them, or expressing negative affect against the government, they can ge much done with little, and it doesn't take that much surveillance. We are already seeing governments that pursue their enemies to the fullest extent of the law for things that are, at best, dubious. Automation just makes this easier to do.
Have you tried reading the news?
Perhaps the shoplifters are less iportant to the surveillance state than the people protesting government abuse and getting chased around the country to their workplaces and vacation hotels?
Haha I think we have a different idea of which 1% is making life miserable
I don't remember Elon Musk breaking into my garage and stealing my bike. But you never know, they never caught the guy.
Instead of your bike he stole everyones 401k and hurt every being on the planet through his rocket launch emissions.
it's not your bike that he stole.
Street crime is tangible, visceral, and visible. When someone physically accosts you or physically invades your space, you feel it.
Incestuous "robber baron" state-capitalism that privatizes gains and socializes losses, or outright white-collar crime, are not so tangible. You don't see it or feel it. It doesn't feel as invasive.
It's worse though, with the only exception being violent crime against your body. It does more actual damage over a longer term.
Thanks GPT.
Adding this comment:
1) We DO actually need to detect crime if we are going to fight it. Sticking our heads in the dirt and strapping a sign to our rear end saying "no surveillance" may feel good, but it does nothing for the victims of crime.
2) The anti-Palantir cries are funded in part by state actors whose operations are constrained by technology that detects and predicts their actions.
The quantity of anti-Palantir, anti-America and anti-American ally threads on HN has grown substantially. YCombinator and HN owe something to this country for setting conditions for their success. How about returning the favor though diligence in moderating HN?