Coding with AI it feels like if you're not using the best model then you're possibly missing out - creating less capable, maintainable, just plain 'good' code. Why waste time using anything less than the best and cleaning up the mess later on. This is why I feel like local models and Chinese models aren't taking off (and Gemini/Grok) - they work, but they're plain just not as good as OpenAI/Anthropic. If you have the money then it doesn't make sense to code with anything else.
> It's a damn good model. Not quite as "smart" as Fable, but it is incredibly capable. Fixed all the problems I had with GPT-5.5.
> It is incredibly determined. Will run for a day without even using a /goal. It understands subagents incredibly well and is great at orchestrating. It's super pleasant in use cases like OpenClaw and Hermes Agent. It knows iOS dev incredibly well.
> It has rough edges too, but FAR fewer than 5.5 did.
> For many things, gpt-5.6-sol will become my obvious defaults.
> It is better about [following instructions] than 5.5 was. Understands intent well and hammers until it gets there. Sometimes a bit too hard.
Also[^1]:
> gpt-5.6-sol is world leading in computer use. It made me use it 100x more. When we lost access to 5.6, I quickly started to go insane without it
I feel like listening to Theo about anything technical is like consulting a Labrador retriever for advice on quantum physics.
Every time I've ever seen one of his videos it's pretty clear he has very little understanding of development or engineering. I first became aware of him from his early "unit tests are a waste of time" stuff, and it seems his skillset is building a personal brand. Fair play, he's clearly talented at that, but that doesn't make his opinion on anything else worthwhile.
> it's pretty clear he has very little understanding of development or engineering
I cannot prove it but I have a feeling that you may be conflating "he clearly has different opinions on things I consider non-negotiable" to "he doesn't know what he's talking about".
I also watched a lot of his videos. I wildly disagree with him a lot of times, but he has his reasoning, and I can see (and verify!) that those ideas are coming from an engineering perspective.
Sure. If his take was "100% unit test coverage is a waste of time" I think that's not unreasonable. You could make a case that the "you must write tests before you write code, every single time!" stuff is needlessly dogmatic. I also think that sometimes people focus too much on unit tests to the detriment of end to end tests that better model actual system interactions.
None of these were Theo's take. He was pushing the idea that unit tests in general were a waste of time because you could be shipping new features instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvBHyip4peo for an example of this. The nicest possible interpretation on this is that he's deliberately saying something he knows is wrong to attract attention.
> Not quite as "smart" as Fable, but it is incredibly capable.
THIS IS BECAUSE GPT-5.6 SOL IS... just a more posttrained version of GPT-5.5, not a brand new bigger model than GPT-5.5. It's not like how Mythos is bigger than Opus.
OpenAI switching to Sol/Terra/Luna renaming is just a way to rip off people and charge more money for the same sized model.
GPT-5.6 --------> GPT-5.6 Sol
GPT-5.6-mini ---> GPT-5.6 Terra
GPT-5.6-nano ---> GPT-5.6 Luna
Except OpenAI is about to charge way more money for GPT-5.6 Sol and GPT-5.6 Terra, than if they named it GPT-5.6 and GPT-5.6-mini.
I use Open AI and Claude a lot right like a lot everyday for hours multiple hours. Open AI gives much more value for money than Claude much more I'd say x 10. Mainly I use it for writing fiction books and literally Claude is locked 90% of everyday trying to jip me for tokens. It's not as good at coding for what I do which is a very complicated application. However it is very good at writing it's really good which is why I keep it right but over 90% maybe actually all of my work except the initial draft of a chapter is done by open AI.
My feeling is that GPT-5.5 doesn't lack the raw intelligence so much as it lacks "methodology". I don't know how exactly to put it... how to approach a problem, how to take care of the details and side effects, how to handle unexpected difficulties and bugs, how to not spin out of control, how to write solid code, how to clean up afterwards, how to document, how to give useful feedback... the things that you learn on the job.
So, if they improved a lot in those areas, then GPT-5.6 could become a lot more useful compared to GPT-5.5 even though it might score lower in many benchmarks. It's possible but unlikely since their approach was mostly brute force in the past.
I wouldn’t call it a recipe for disaster, but oh boy if you leave an agent that “hammers until it gets there” on its own with an underlying bug in a dependency…
Damn this is exciting. I love that gpt models are much faster, efficient and cheaper than Claude models. They are so fast even on high/xhigh that I don’t find myself using the parallel agent setup anymore much since its cognitively less demanding to just follow along what the model is doing and most tasks it will complete in <5-<10mins anyway.
THIS IS BECAUSE GPT-5.6 SOL IS... just a more posttrained version of GPT-5.5, not a bigger model than GPT-5.5. It's not like how Mythos is bigger than Opus.
OpenAI switching to the Sol/Terra/Luna naming is just a way to rip off people and charge more money for the same sized model.
GPT-5.6 --------> GPT-5.6 Sol
GPT-5.6-mini ---> GPT-5.6 Terra
GPT-5.6-nano ---> GPT-5.6 Luna
Except OpenAI is about to charge way more money for GPT-5.6 Sol and GPT-5.6 Terra, than if they named it GPT-5.6 and GPT-5.6-mini.
Two important things to note, if you want to verify what I say/correct me:
GPT-5.6 Terra actually scores worse than GPT-5.5 on many benchmarks. It's not GPT-5.5 trained with more compute; it's basically GPT-5.6-mini that's been distilled from GPT-5.6 full size. Remember, GPT-5.4-mini had almost the same benchmarks as GPT-5.2 after all.
Opus 4.8 runs at ~90 tokens per second. Fable 5 runs at ~40 tokens per second on from Anthropic, because it's a bigger/slower model.
A few days after the release, when the dust dies down, look at how many tokens/second GPT-5.6 Sol is running at. I will bet it's the about same as GPT-5.5, and not half the speed. (OpenAI is not incentivized to slow down the model for paying customers). But the model tokens/sec will be a big clue- if OpenAI is charging more money for the same sized model or not.
I’m bouncing back between Codex and Claude like a ping-pong ball. I much prefer the experience using Codex, less verbose and to-the-point I’ve found. But Fable, being as strong as it is, is a big draw for Claude right now. I’ll likely switch back to Codex if 5.6 Sol is comparable.
Same. For some reason late opus model are very superficial doing ux work and so am using gpt for that, but backend is much better engineered by claude, gpt prefer to duplicate everything it needs on the spot causing class sprawl
How are y'all carrying context history from one agent to the other?
I also flip between the models due to quota, TUI enhancements, model updates and service availability.
To handle this, I built a thing that normalizes your transcripts between Claude Code and Codex into a shared DB, then a CLI and skill.
It has made it so it doesn't matter what I built where (or when) I just refer to the work and drop in a /total-recall (or $total-recall on codex) and the agent brings it into the current convo.
I realize there are a lot of ~memory tools out there, but I think particular my approach and product behavior is unique.
Probably, but I think it's too little too late. Not much point to it if it's not permanent. The "get the most out of Fable until it goes away" frenzy is getting old fast. The cybersecurity blocks are very obnoxious too.
If OpenAI can launch a Fable tier model that's actually usable on a subscription, then Anthropic is just going to lose, and badly.
Any previewers have hot takes? I've really preferred gpt-5.5 over Opus 4.8 for data analysis and scientific software work. It seems much more reliable. Fable is unusable for the type of work that I do (due to guardrails). Really looking forward to trying these new OpenAI models out.
Interesting to hear people like gpt-5.5. For me it feels smart only at one shot prompts, but if you try to build up session context before doing something it feels magnitudes inferior to Claude.
I'm almost sure its because the thinking of previous turns is stripped with the responses API, so if I tell it to analyse something deeply, what remains of the understanding in future turns is only the short response text of that analysis
For gpt-5.5 I build up that session context into a markdown file, and then I start a new session and give it the markdown file with the instructions for what to do.
I'm guessing this works better because it can always go back and re-analyze the saved context.
Do you have a source for this? I'm pretty sure responses api is only there to obfuscate reasoning, but that they're still keeping reasoning traces in the backend.
> Input and output tokens from each step are carried over, while reasoning tokens are discarded.
Keeping reasoning tokens around is better for caching and for remembering past insights, so you might reasonably wonder why we designed it this way. The main benefit of dropping reasoning tokens is that you can fit a lot more work inside the model's context window before you're forced into a slow and lossy compaction step. This was a larger consideration with our earlier reasoning models that had shorter context windows (~200k), longer thinking times (up to ~100k), and poor compaction. However, now that we've shipped longer context windows, we've trained our models think much more efficiently, and we've made compaction way better than it used to be, the balance of factors is changing. Tune in Thursday!
> thinking of previous turns is stripped with the responses API
Why do they store an encrypted reasoning payload in the session file and pass it to the API? Just a ruse? Reasoning isn’t even that many tokens, you think they’d degrade their model quality like that?
Reasoning messages would be lost immediately after a single tool call, unless you mean they sometimes go back and strip the reasoning channel retroactively, but that would increase costs via cache invalidation. I just don’t see any way it would make sense for them to do.
And wouldn’t this be noticeable by reasoning tokens not being accounted for in the context window usage?
For compiler work I found that Sol is noticably better than 5.5 (and I generally use OAI models because I like the Codex app), but Fable was still obviously better.
I'm most curious about whether OpenAI finally taught its models how to design interfaces. They have been behind the other labs in this area for what feels like ages.
I find codex way more usable. It’s not pretentiously verbose like Claude. It’s also responsive - I can see the progress easily and steer the conversation. With Claude, it might take 15 minutes and I would lose patience.
I held out on OpenAI until last month because I despise Sam Altman, but using Codex is a great experience and 5.5 (medium) I'm on 20$ is very capable, follows instructions when it should and confronts me/challenges me when it should.
UX is nicer where the agent is somehow "separated" from execution.
Coding with AI it feels like if you're not using the best model then you're possibly missing out - creating less capable, maintainable, just plain 'good' code. Why waste time using anything less than the best and cleaning up the mess later on. This is why I feel like local models and Chinese models aren't taking off (and Gemini/Grok) - they work, but they're plain just not as good as OpenAI/Anthropic. If you have the money then it doesn't make sense to code with anything else.
Thoughts[^0] from Theo, who had early access:
> It's a damn good model. Not quite as "smart" as Fable, but it is incredibly capable. Fixed all the problems I had with GPT-5.5.
> It is incredibly determined. Will run for a day without even using a /goal. It understands subagents incredibly well and is great at orchestrating. It's super pleasant in use cases like OpenClaw and Hermes Agent. It knows iOS dev incredibly well.
> It has rough edges too, but FAR fewer than 5.5 did.
> For many things, gpt-5.6-sol will become my obvious defaults.
> It is better about [following instructions] than 5.5 was. Understands intent well and hammers until it gets there. Sometimes a bit too hard.
Also[^1]:
> gpt-5.6-sol is world leading in computer use. It made me use it 100x more. When we lost access to 5.6, I quickly started to go insane without it
[^0]: https://nitter.net/theo/status/2074708892341481755 [^1]: https://nitter.net/theo/status/2074720467395756499
I feel like listening to Theo about anything technical is like consulting a Labrador retriever for advice on quantum physics.
Every time I've ever seen one of his videos it's pretty clear he has very little understanding of development or engineering. I first became aware of him from his early "unit tests are a waste of time" stuff, and it seems his skillset is building a personal brand. Fair play, he's clearly talented at that, but that doesn't make his opinion on anything else worthwhile.
> it's pretty clear he has very little understanding of development or engineering
I cannot prove it but I have a feeling that you may be conflating "he clearly has different opinions on things I consider non-negotiable" to "he doesn't know what he's talking about".
I also watched a lot of his videos. I wildly disagree with him a lot of times, but he has his reasoning, and I can see (and verify!) that those ideas are coming from an engineering perspective.
And half his videos are him coming up with indirect ways of saying look how amazing I am.
There is a whole religion about tests that is worth attacking though
Sure. If his take was "100% unit test coverage is a waste of time" I think that's not unreasonable. You could make a case that the "you must write tests before you write code, every single time!" stuff is needlessly dogmatic. I also think that sometimes people focus too much on unit tests to the detriment of end to end tests that better model actual system interactions.
None of these were Theo's take. He was pushing the idea that unit tests in general were a waste of time because you could be shipping new features instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvBHyip4peo for an example of this. The nicest possible interpretation on this is that he's deliberately saying something he knows is wrong to attract attention.
Increased tenacity & goal following is exactly what I want in this model, to make it compete with Claude models.
(A little toning down of the goblin fetish would be nice too, haha.)
> Not quite as "smart" as Fable, but it is incredibly capable.
THIS IS BECAUSE GPT-5.6 SOL IS... just a more posttrained version of GPT-5.5, not a brand new bigger model than GPT-5.5. It's not like how Mythos is bigger than Opus.
OpenAI switching to Sol/Terra/Luna renaming is just a way to rip off people and charge more money for the same sized model.
GPT-5.6 --------> GPT-5.6 Sol
GPT-5.6-mini ---> GPT-5.6 Terra
GPT-5.6-nano ---> GPT-5.6 Luna
Except OpenAI is about to charge way more money for GPT-5.6 Sol and GPT-5.6 Terra, than if they named it GPT-5.6 and GPT-5.6-mini.
I use Open AI and Claude a lot right like a lot everyday for hours multiple hours. Open AI gives much more value for money than Claude much more I'd say x 10. Mainly I use it for writing fiction books and literally Claude is locked 90% of everyday trying to jip me for tokens. It's not as good at coding for what I do which is a very complicated application. However it is very good at writing it's really good which is why I keep it right but over 90% maybe actually all of my work except the initial draft of a chapter is done by open AI.
My feeling is that GPT-5.5 doesn't lack the raw intelligence so much as it lacks "methodology". I don't know how exactly to put it... how to approach a problem, how to take care of the details and side effects, how to handle unexpected difficulties and bugs, how to not spin out of control, how to write solid code, how to clean up afterwards, how to document, how to give useful feedback... the things that you learn on the job.
So, if they improved a lot in those areas, then GPT-5.6 could become a lot more useful compared to GPT-5.5 even though it might score lower in many benchmarks. It's possible but unlikely since their approach was mostly brute force in the past.
> OpenAI switching to Sol/Terra/Luna renaming is just a way to rip off people and charge more money for the same sized model.
Excuse me, but what are you on about?
Unless I'm mistaken, they have literally(1) stated that it will cost $5 per 1M tokens in, and $30 for 1M output tokens. The same as GPT-5.5.
[1] https://openai.com/index/previewing-gpt-5-6-sol/
here is the original x post
https://x.com/theo/status/2074708892341481755
5.6 sol seems to hit a lot of the gaps with 5.5
sucks its not "mythos" but i will take it
“Understands intent well and hammers until it gets there. “
If there’s anything I learned over the past 12-18 months is that this is a recipe for disaster, except for throwaway stuff.
I thought most senior engineers settled on the fact that steering a model yields much better results?
It's very possible that would be the best strategy over the last 12-18 months and now that this is released it is no longer the best strategy.
I wouldn’t call it a recipe for disaster, but oh boy if you leave an agent that “hammers until it gets there” on its own with an underlying bug in a dependency…
Damn this is exciting. I love that gpt models are much faster, efficient and cheaper than Claude models. They are so fast even on high/xhigh that I don’t find myself using the parallel agent setup anymore much since its cognitively less demanding to just follow along what the model is doing and most tasks it will complete in <5-<10mins anyway.
THIS IS BECAUSE GPT-5.6 SOL IS... just a more posttrained version of GPT-5.5, not a bigger model than GPT-5.5. It's not like how Mythos is bigger than Opus.
OpenAI switching to the Sol/Terra/Luna naming is just a way to rip off people and charge more money for the same sized model.
GPT-5.6 --------> GPT-5.6 Sol
GPT-5.6-mini ---> GPT-5.6 Terra
GPT-5.6-nano ---> GPT-5.6 Luna
Except OpenAI is about to charge way more money for GPT-5.6 Sol and GPT-5.6 Terra, than if they named it GPT-5.6 and GPT-5.6-mini.
Two important things to note, if you want to verify what I say/correct me:
GPT-5.6 Terra actually scores worse than GPT-5.5 on many benchmarks. It's not GPT-5.5 trained with more compute; it's basically GPT-5.6-mini that's been distilled from GPT-5.6 full size. Remember, GPT-5.4-mini had almost the same benchmarks as GPT-5.2 after all.
Opus 4.8 runs at ~90 tokens per second. Fable 5 runs at ~40 tokens per second on from Anthropic, because it's a bigger/slower model. A few days after the release, when the dust dies down, look at how many tokens/second GPT-5.6 Sol is running at. I will bet it's the about same as GPT-5.5, and not half the speed. (OpenAI is not incentivized to slow down the model for paying customers). But the model tokens/sec will be a big clue- if OpenAI is charging more money for the same sized model or not.
bigger doesn't mean better, chill out
I’m bouncing back between Codex and Claude like a ping-pong ball. I much prefer the experience using Codex, less verbose and to-the-point I’ve found. But Fable, being as strong as it is, is a big draw for Claude right now. I’ll likely switch back to Codex if 5.6 Sol is comparable.
Same. For some reason late opus model are very superficial doing ux work and so am using gpt for that, but backend is much better engineered by claude, gpt prefer to duplicate everything it needs on the spot causing class sprawl
How are y'all carrying context history from one agent to the other?
I also flip between the models due to quota, TUI enhancements, model updates and service availability.
To handle this, I built a thing that normalizes your transcripts between Claude Code and Codex into a shared DB, then a CLI and skill.
It has made it so it doesn't matter what I built where (or when) I just refer to the work and drop in a /total-recall (or $total-recall on codex) and the agent brings it into the current convo.
I realize there are a lot of ~memory tools out there, but I think particular my approach and product behavior is unique.
If you're open to giving it a try, I'd appreciate any feedback: https://contextify.sh recent show hn: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48777790
Why not both? T3 Code exists.
Hadn't heard about it. Launching either "codex" or "claude" from cli isn't exactly a pain point I was looking to fix.
Is this the reason Anthropic extended use of Fable 5 via subscriptions until July 12? Seems a bit like it
Probably, but I think it's too little too late. Not much point to it if it's not permanent. The "get the most out of Fable until it goes away" frenzy is getting old fast. The cybersecurity blocks are very obnoxious too.
If OpenAI can launch a Fable tier model that's actually usable on a subscription, then Anthropic is just going to lose, and badly.
Will it be available on subscription tiers? That will get me to switch away from Anthropic.
Any previewers have hot takes? I've really preferred gpt-5.5 over Opus 4.8 for data analysis and scientific software work. It seems much more reliable. Fable is unusable for the type of work that I do (due to guardrails). Really looking forward to trying these new OpenAI models out.
Interesting to hear people like gpt-5.5. For me it feels smart only at one shot prompts, but if you try to build up session context before doing something it feels magnitudes inferior to Claude. I'm almost sure its because the thinking of previous turns is stripped with the responses API, so if I tell it to analyse something deeply, what remains of the understanding in future turns is only the short response text of that analysis
For gpt-5.5 I build up that session context into a markdown file, and then I start a new session and give it the markdown file with the instructions for what to do.
I'm guessing this works better because it can always go back and re-analyze the saved context.
Do you have a source for this? I'm pretty sure responses api is only there to obfuscate reasoning, but that they're still keeping reasoning traces in the backend.
I work at OpenAI and can confirm that's correct: reasoning tokens are discarded between turns (though not between messages).
Our docs show a diagram here:
https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/guides/reasoning
> Input and output tokens from each step are carried over, while reasoning tokens are discarded.
Keeping reasoning tokens around is better for caching and for remembering past insights, so you might reasonably wonder why we designed it this way. The main benefit of dropping reasoning tokens is that you can fit a lot more work inside the model's context window before you're forced into a slow and lossy compaction step. This was a larger consideration with our earlier reasoning models that had shorter context windows (~200k), longer thinking times (up to ~100k), and poor compaction. However, now that we've shipped longer context windows, we've trained our models think much more efficiently, and we've made compaction way better than it used to be, the balance of factors is changing. Tune in Thursday!
There's no source for it as it's made-up nonsense
> thinking of previous turns is stripped with the responses API
Why do they store an encrypted reasoning payload in the session file and pass it to the API? Just a ruse? Reasoning isn’t even that many tokens, you think they’d degrade their model quality like that?
Reasoning messages would be lost immediately after a single tool call, unless you mean they sometimes go back and strip the reasoning channel retroactively, but that would increase costs via cache invalidation. I just don’t see any way it would make sense for them to do.
And wouldn’t this be noticeable by reasoning tokens not being accounted for in the context window usage?
For compiler work I found that Sol is noticably better than 5.5 (and I generally use OAI models because I like the Codex app), but Fable was still obviously better.
It seems comparable to Fable to me in my uses.
What types of use cases?
That's great to hear - and for the same price as 5.5, and reportedly with much lower token use per task.
Were you able to try Sol Ultra?
No, my organization limits access to xhigh.
Interesting, data analysis work is the only thing I’ll use Gemini for
I'm most curious about whether OpenAI finally taught its models how to design interfaces. They have been behind the other labs in this area for what feels like ages.
What do you feel is the best model for interface design right now?
For me claude is the best, hands down. Fable took it a step even further.
Mirror: https://xcancel.com/OpenAI/status/2074704958419792299
I find codex way more usable. It’s not pretentiously verbose like Claude. It’s also responsive - I can see the progress easily and steer the conversation. With Claude, it might take 15 minutes and I would lose patience.
I held out on OpenAI until last month because I despise Sam Altman, but using Codex is a great experience and 5.5 (medium) I'm on 20$ is very capable, follows instructions when it should and confronts me/challenges me when it should.
UX is nicer where the agent is somehow "separated" from execution.
The question is, launch to who …
To everyone.
"We’re expanding preview access globally now." Preview access? Not as straightforward as "launching on thursday".
...so is it a good idea to use up all my Codex quota by Thursday in the hopes of a reset to promote GPT 5.6?
Honestly they sound like pokemon game names.