I got a Pixel 10 during prime day and installed GrapheneOS with Cape for the provider. So far, it's been mostly great. The only setback, for me, is the lack of support for tap to pay. I haven't been able to get any wallet app to work. I keep my iphone with minimal service mainly to still have tap to pay and do facetime with my book club.
My previous phone broke recently and I got Pixel 10a and installed GrapheneOS on it, my first time using it. OS-wise all is well. I just wish the phone was smaller, lighter, and had an audio jack. I still have a working Pixel 4a around and its form factor is perfect, but GrapheneOS does not support it any more.
I've tried two things. The free version is I've stuck a card which supports tap to pay inside my phone case. Big brain time, I know, but it actually works reasonably well. Many modern card phone cases now put shielding in (they didn't used to), which on one level I appreciate, but it limits its utility in this particular use case. I haven't tried one of the current cases to see if the shielding can be easily removed. A thin, flat card with etched/printed numbers is better than one with stamped/raised numbers.
Beyond that, I've been quite happy with Garmin Pay. The watch itself doesn't have a mic or LTE radio, I leave it on airplane mode the vast majority of the time, and it works without the phone nearby. As privacy-hostile-device privacy policies go, Garmin has one of the less offensive ones. I run the Garmin apps in the Owner profile's private space.
I've never had it not work for payment in years of using it, and in fact, at one one payment kiosk I tried to use Apple Pay for a particular large purchase when it made sense to, the kiosk refused repeatedly, but then accepted Garmin Pay.
Their lowest-end devices still don't support it, but I think you can get into it for an MSRP of about $250, and they tend to discount at all of the predictable times. Also, eBay.
Re: FaceTime, there's a way to do it from Android if you're invited (I don't think you can initiate it), but I haven't messed with it in years. See if you can get a good privacy book for normies on the agenda and suggest moving to Signal during the discussion.
I have a Pixel 7 Pro and I've been considering reflashing with GrapheneOS. I bought a Garmin watch which does tap-to-pay to deal with the loss of that feature.
How is the camera on GrapheneOS compared to the stock Pixel 10? Do your banking apps work without playing cat-and-mouse games?
Default camera app is decent and has imo all the basic necessities. You could obviously install the Google camera app and use that if you're after the software features like AI enhancement etc.
Got 3 banking apps (Europe) and they work without a hitch or complaint since installing over 3 years ago. I still use physical cards though so tap-to-pay is a no but I was never interested in that.
I have a garmin but my banks don't suppose it for tap.
There are a few settings you have to adjust for the camera to be any good. I thought it was trash until this weekend when I found the settings. The default has quality at 95% and has "highest photo resolution" toggled off. The stock camera app doesn't seem to let you set the resolution specifically.
I use Varo and Sofi. Both apps work on my phone. The only app I have had a specific problem with was the MyQ app, but there is a workaround for that one.
I added a ratgdo to my garage door opener and use that with Home Assistant (and wireguard to my phone) instead of MyQ, so that wouldn't be a problem.
It's probably worth doing, but I have about three and a half years of data / setup on my phone and I'd have to wipe that all out. I wouldn't permanently lose data, but I did spend a good amount of time setting up my home screen, etc. It's a big leap! :-)
I haven't noticed the battery life being bad or good. So I guess it is fine. My other phone is an iphone 17 pro max. I feel like the battery degrades at about the same rate on both phones, but I use the pixel more.
Similar experience, so i just use my garmin watch to pay. Similar compatibility as google pay, but since it runs entirely on the watch it does not check against play integrity.
You don't want tap-to-pay to work because tap-to-pay requires a bunch of proprietary shitware in order for banks to trust it. It's basically like saying Netflix won't work because of Widevine DRM. Just tap your actual bank card, it's more secure anyway. Or your other, non-secure phone.
Stop doing this. Yes, I want tap-to-pay to work. I don't want to be told I don't want that; I want it to work without the proprietary attestation garbage.
I do have to say that if you're interested in privacy, tap to pay or even a credit card is the opposite of that. Cash would be the way to go for private transactions.
Cape has SIM swap protection and IMSI rotation. As far as I know, Phreeli doesn't. Phreelie just promises not to collect, use or sell your data but doesn't seem to have any actual privacy tools like Cape does.
As honeypots go (I'm only joking, well, half-joking), Cape's pretty great on a lot of levels.
I'm glad Cape has competition and hope Phreeli succeeds, but the time when I'd happily contribute to anything he starts is long gone. The substantial credibility he genuinely earned has finally been fully spent, at least for me, but I do hope it becomes a viable option.
Given how long I've been using Graphene, this is not a bad idea also because there has been increasing pressure from governments clamping down on privacy solutions
Also, gonna post the crowdfunding link for Samuel Tunick, the American protestor facing federal charges for allegedly giving a DHS officer a GrapheneOS duress password:
This is surely the closest to a solution we have, IMO. An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream. By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux. At which point companies and governments will be forced to take software freedom slightly more seriously. That's my optimistic take.
https://proxysto.re/en/ sells GrapheneOS phones, with worldwide shipping I believe. They do donate a portion of every sale to GrapheneOS. However, you're recommended to install GrapheneOS yourself and not buy it from someone else, so that you know it hasn't been tampered with.
They start their list with "GitHub Sponsors (credit card)", then list five cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin, Monero, Zcash, Ethereum, Cardano, Litecoin), two of which have "We aren't looking for donations of tokens, only Ethereum [resp. Cardano] itself." Then Wise Quick Pay, then Local Bank Transfer (providing the Wise bank details for Belgium, UK, US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Hungary, and Turkey), then PayPal (in CAD, USD, EUR, GBP – pointing out the PayPal fee), and finally Interac e-Transfer. I wonder whether there's a reason for this order?
Also, PayPal's fee, as described, is fairly steep:
> PayPal charges a base fee of 30 cents and 2.9% of the donation amount within Canada. There's an additional 0.8% fee for donations from the US and 1% for other countries. Currency conversion adds an additional 4% fee as opposed to the usual PayPal conversion fee of 3%.
GrapheneOS, for all intents and purposes, still heavily promotes Google and it's services (and no, "sandboxing" is not the solution if you still have to rely on that crap). And they would probably still happy force everyone to buy Google hardware (Pixel) if it weren't for middle-finger from said Google (lack of drivers tree…)
You don't have to install Google Play Services at all. If you have to install it anyway, then Graphene's implementation seems a lot more mature than microG or any other solution out there for /e/ OS.
I got a Pixel 10 during prime day and installed GrapheneOS with Cape for the provider. So far, it's been mostly great. The only setback, for me, is the lack of support for tap to pay. I haven't been able to get any wallet app to work. I keep my iphone with minimal service mainly to still have tap to pay and do facetime with my book club.
My previous phone broke recently and I got Pixel 10a and installed GrapheneOS on it, my first time using it. OS-wise all is well. I just wish the phone was smaller, lighter, and had an audio jack. I still have a working Pixel 4a around and its form factor is perfect, but GrapheneOS does not support it any more.
I've tried two things. The free version is I've stuck a card which supports tap to pay inside my phone case. Big brain time, I know, but it actually works reasonably well. Many modern card phone cases now put shielding in (they didn't used to), which on one level I appreciate, but it limits its utility in this particular use case. I haven't tried one of the current cases to see if the shielding can be easily removed. A thin, flat card with etched/printed numbers is better than one with stamped/raised numbers.
Beyond that, I've been quite happy with Garmin Pay. The watch itself doesn't have a mic or LTE radio, I leave it on airplane mode the vast majority of the time, and it works without the phone nearby. As privacy-hostile-device privacy policies go, Garmin has one of the less offensive ones. I run the Garmin apps in the Owner profile's private space.
I've never had it not work for payment in years of using it, and in fact, at one one payment kiosk I tried to use Apple Pay for a particular large purchase when it made sense to, the kiosk refused repeatedly, but then accepted Garmin Pay.
Their lowest-end devices still don't support it, but I think you can get into it for an MSRP of about $250, and they tend to discount at all of the predictable times. Also, eBay.
Re: FaceTime, there's a way to do it from Android if you're invited (I don't think you can initiate it), but I haven't messed with it in years. See if you can get a good privacy book for normies on the agenda and suggest moving to Signal during the discussion.
I have a Garmin watch, but my banks don't support it for tap to pay. I can add cards to Garmin wallet, but not to my watch.
That's a shame. Have you tried raising it with them at some significant level?
For any others wondering, here's the list of participating banks: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/garminpay/banks/
place your debit card on the backside of your phone via a case pocket. a lot of cards these days support tap to pay.
I have a Pixel 7 Pro and I've been considering reflashing with GrapheneOS. I bought a Garmin watch which does tap-to-pay to deal with the loss of that feature.
How is the camera on GrapheneOS compared to the stock Pixel 10? Do your banking apps work without playing cat-and-mouse games?
Default camera app is decent and has imo all the basic necessities. You could obviously install the Google camera app and use that if you're after the software features like AI enhancement etc.
Got 3 banking apps (Europe) and they work without a hitch or complaint since installing over 3 years ago. I still use physical cards though so tap-to-pay is a no but I was never interested in that.
You can install google's camera app if you want, and it works exactly the same.
I also use a garmin and haven't bothered with banking apps (all banks have a website and I avoid closed source software when I can), but it looks like quite a few are supported: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
I have a garmin but my banks don't suppose it for tap.
There are a few settings you have to adjust for the camera to be any good. I thought it was trash until this weekend when I found the settings. The default has quality at 95% and has "highest photo resolution" toggled off. The stock camera app doesn't seem to let you set the resolution specifically.
I use Varo and Sofi. Both apps work on my phone. The only app I have had a specific problem with was the MyQ app, but there is a workaround for that one.
I added a ratgdo to my garage door opener and use that with Home Assistant (and wireguard to my phone) instead of MyQ, so that wouldn't be a problem.
It's probably worth doing, but I have about three and a half years of data / setup on my phone and I'd have to wipe that all out. I wouldn't permanently lose data, but I did spend a good amount of time setting up my home screen, etc. It's a big leap! :-)
Is your battery life better?
I haven't noticed the battery life being bad or good. So I guess it is fine. My other phone is an iphone 17 pro max. I feel like the battery degrades at about the same rate on both phones, but I use the pixel more.
Similar experience, so i just use my garmin watch to pay. Similar compatibility as google pay, but since it runs entirely on the watch it does not check against play integrity.
If you use a case you could put a card behind your phone. I still use google wallet for various cards, just not tap-to-pay.
Paypal works for payment, at least in Germany
You don't want tap-to-pay to work because tap-to-pay requires a bunch of proprietary shitware in order for banks to trust it. It's basically like saying Netflix won't work because of Widevine DRM. Just tap your actual bank card, it's more secure anyway. Or your other, non-secure phone.
> You don't want tap-to-pay to work
Stop doing this. Yes, I want tap-to-pay to work. I don't want to be told I don't want that; I want it to work without the proprietary attestation garbage.
I find it hard to believe that you'd carry two devices with you just to pay, why not carry a card with your pixel?
I do have to say that if you're interested in privacy, tap to pay or even a credit card is the opposite of that. Cash would be the way to go for private transactions.
Threat modelling, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, etc. What are you defending, and from who? You have to consider that.
For real though just bring your actual card instead of trying to load it onto your phone. Why give Apple and Google your card's private key?
Because it's graphine and the entire point is that google is not involved in any transaction between you and your banking app.
Why Cape instead of Phreeli?
Cape has SIM swap protection and IMSI rotation. As far as I know, Phreeli doesn't. Phreelie just promises not to collect, use or sell your data but doesn't seem to have any actual privacy tools like Cape does.
As honeypots go (I'm only joking, well, half-joking), Cape's pretty great on a lot of levels.
I'm glad Cape has competition and hope Phreeli succeeds, but the time when I'd happily contribute to anything he starts is long gone. The substantial credibility he genuinely earned has finally been fully spent, at least for me, but I do hope it becomes a viable option.
Given how long I've been using Graphene, this is not a bad idea also because there has been increasing pressure from governments clamping down on privacy solutions
Also, gonna post the crowdfunding link for Samuel Tunick, the American protestor facing federal charges for allegedly giving a DHS officer a GrapheneOS duress password:
https://www.givesendgo.com/letsamgo
It's important he beats his charges to prevent setting an unfavorable precedent for digital privacy rights.
If I donate, can we get the Lineage keyboard with all the symbols in the same places?
I'd actually love to have the Holo keyboard back. That was my favorite.
I always found it funny that the first step of leaving the Google smartphone ecosystem is to buy a Google phone
Why not sell phones?
This is surely the closest to a solution we have, IMO. An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream. By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux. At which point companies and governments will be forced to take software freedom slightly more seriously. That's my optimistic take.
> An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream
All you need to install graphene is a web browser and USB cable.
> By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux
Those exists. They've never gained traction. If you think graphene is too much tinkering, you'll be traumatised by that landscape.
https://proxysto.re/en/ sells GrapheneOS phones, with worldwide shipping I believe. They do donate a portion of every sale to GrapheneOS. However, you're recommended to install GrapheneOS yourself and not buy it from someone else, so that you know it hasn't been tampered with.
Motorola will be releasing phones compatible with GrapheneOS, though it's unclear if they will ship with GrapheneOS.
They could partner with Fairphone and each can bring their complementary competencies.
Because that would require a massive network and additional legal liabilities.
Partnering with Motorola seems to be the best bet.
:) nice, topical
They start their list with "GitHub Sponsors (credit card)", then list five cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin, Monero, Zcash, Ethereum, Cardano, Litecoin), two of which have "We aren't looking for donations of tokens, only Ethereum [resp. Cardano] itself." Then Wise Quick Pay, then Local Bank Transfer (providing the Wise bank details for Belgium, UK, US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Hungary, and Turkey), then PayPal (in CAD, USD, EUR, GBP – pointing out the PayPal fee), and finally Interac e-Transfer. I wonder whether there's a reason for this order?
Also, PayPal's fee, as described, is fairly steep:
> PayPal charges a base fee of 30 cents and 2.9% of the donation amount within Canada. There's an additional 0.8% fee for donations from the US and 1% for other countries. Currency conversion adds an additional 4% fee as opposed to the usual PayPal conversion fee of 3%.
Maybe they're listing in increasing order of payment processor fees?
Or it's just in no particular order
GrapheneOS looks pretty solid alas ios has the apps I prefer.
Meh… would rather do /e/ or PostmarketOS…
GrapheneOS, for all intents and purposes, still heavily promotes Google and it's services (and no, "sandboxing" is not the solution if you still have to rely on that crap). And they would probably still happy force everyone to buy Google hardware (Pixel) if it weren't for middle-finger from said Google (lack of drivers tree…)
You don't have to install Google Play Services at all. If you have to install it anyway, then Graphene's implementation seems a lot more mature than microG or any other solution out there for /e/ OS.