I was amused by the compulsively positive way this article is written. I don't think I've had read about "falling in love" with a designer drug or about "chemsex enthusiasts" before.
All good, let people do what they want to do, but no downsides at all, even for the other drugs mentioned?
Cocaine's problem is "the irritation", Ecstasy has too much of a "hard comedown"? And all of them are addictive, but that's just a "potentially fatal flaw"?
Interesting parallel universe you got there.
Oh and:
> Perhaps it will turn out to be like MDMA, which saw its recreational market explode after being banned. So far, 3-MMC’s supply chains, which trace back to industrial labs in China and India, have held steady. With its irresistible mix of pleasure and productivity, 3-MMC might just be the drug for our time.
For every addict, there are many responsible adults that can set healthy boundaries and have a positive relationship with recreational drugs. This article is for them.
And for every adult who believes they have healthy boundaries with recreational drugs, how many are addicts? Based on my experience, I find the words healthy and recreational to be carrying too much water in this context.
A responsible adult prepares in advance for any risk of something horrible happening. This is why sober Trip Sitters exist. There is actually a market for this; you can pay someone to be your designated driver of drugs. Very common
If you don't know at least a few chemsex enthusiasts, you might be leading a pretty sheltered life. While I'm not into chemsex, it's not exactly uncommon either. Plenty of folks out there getting high and going at it because they enjoy the experience more.
This is a weird article. 3-MMC has been around for a long time and was banned in both Europe and America years ago because it’s not new. The article even says so right in the middle.
I wonder if this was written by someone who recently discovered 3-MMC and is in the honeymoon phase where they think their use is only positive and the good times will never end. Quotes like this are not something you’ll hear from experienced users of this type of drug:
> “When you take it, you don’t feel ‘high,’ ” he explained. “You just feel better, with a little bit of pep in your step. It’s a functional tool, and it’s also very stealth. The outside world can’t really tell that you’re on drugs.”
There’s a subreddit dedicated to discussions of these research chemicals. It’s a strange place because it’s filled with stories that start out like this, which attract dozens of comments from more experienced users trying to warn the new user that those feelings aren’t going to last and that their altered state isn’t as covert as they believe. There are also a lot of posts from people desperate for advice about how to recover after hitting rock bottom from months of using these drugs, having discovered that they could not, in fact, take it forever like they original thought.
I don’t know what this article is, but if it made you think 3-MMC is a secret to partying hard and being productive forever without any notable downsides (other than the oh by the way it’s a little addictive aside) then you should know that this is what all of the honeymoon phase stories look like with every drug addiction stories.
It's a very specific way of saying "addictive," which I appreciate. Different drugs are addictive for different reasons, and redosing is triggered by different physiological inputs.
Compulsive redosing refers to a short-term addictive quality. It feels good so you take more.
Addictive can mean a lot of things. Opiates have agonizing, long-lasting withdrawal effects that can trigger redosing over the course of months or years. That's also a meaning of "addictive" but one that is intentionally not included by the author's wording.
Not the same. A substance that literally travels into your dopamine system and modifies it is going to be more addictive than eating some sugar or playing a slot machine
There are a lot of exotic compounds now, and the law doesn't cover many of them.
However, the human brain has finite known chemistry (if I recall it is under 14 types of possible highs excluding hallucinogens), and note many malformed neurotransmitters from Erythroxylum coca can make people sociopathic or psychotic during the 10 month average withdrawal period.
The schizophrenic symptoms a highly poisonous Datura stramonium family causes has almost no one lining up to ever experience a nightmare trip rolling in their own excrement for 10 days. However, some native tribes still guide young folk through the experience as a rite of passage ceremony.
Addiction is a nuisance by comparison, but some experiences go well beyond synthetic catharsis or a chemical lobotomy. Most drugs are legal in my country now, but it hasn't made people healthier or more responsible.
Most of these plants grow naturally in many areas, and there are worse things around... which is why one should always garden with gloves on, and never burn unknown greenery. =3
like the difference between someone who intended to have 3 drinks, but once they're 2 drinks in it makes them want to have 3 more drinks, and the familiar alcoholic.
every recreational drug is addictive in the same way as weed or sex or anything else that feels good. thats nothing to be concerned about.
the problem is when something gives you physical dependence like heroin or heavy drinking where you cant just decide to quit because your body adapts to the drug and you will get sick without it, and i dont know if thats the case with 3-MMC.
If a drug is compatible with a healthy social or productive lifestyle it would seem unreasonable to ban it. Danger of withdrawals might be a consideration.
Caffeine is pretty safe. The withdrawals, for those of us who experience them, are safe if unpleasant.
There's prescription drugs that cause dependency but are widely prescribed. Gabapentin is a good example?
Alcohol is the drug that best fits the "grandfathered" idea, since it's for many folks not compatible with a healthy lifestyle and the withdrawals can be fatal. Alcohol is impossible to ban, though, because the precursors are in every grocery store on the planet and grow on trees
There are many prohibited substances that are more "compatible with a healthy social or productive lifestyle" than legal substances. The actual criteria for a ban seems to be if it isn't alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, or prescribed by a doctor.
I’ve always been skeptical about caffeine’s alleged physical dependence. I’m a two or three cups a day consumer, but I’ve quit many times and never felt any different. This has been entirely by accident, like forgetting to pack coffee on a 2 week back packing trip, or purchasing decaf coffee by mistake, and didn’t even realize I wasn’t drinking for several days
> “Stories come tumbling out, not because you can’t stop talking about yourself, but from an earnest yearning to share authentically and be received, while simultaneously promoting deeper listening and presence.”
In this age of turning away from network media and embracing video podcasts, this seems like something some talk show host would offer—coffee? Water? Chatty drugs?
> “When you take it, you don’t feel ‘high,’ ” he explained. “You just feel better, with a little bit of pep in your step. It’s a functional tool, and it’s also very stealth. The outside world can’t really tell that you’re on drugs.”
Thing is, it’s just not true. 3-MMC spins you up hard and it would be extremely obvious in a work setting, for example. These are just the words of a user that wants to believe that no one knows when they’re using.
No, it’s just another designer drug and not a particularly new one. If you want a productivity drug there are more effective, more studied alternatives. If you want a party drug then you should probably take whatever is at the party. I think half of this article is selling fomo to people that haven’t been to ‘those parties’
Yeah the “I read it for the articles!” claim does have a nugget of truth to it, lots of well known authors published stories in the magazine, Jimmy Carter even sat for an interview with the magazine.
Like most drugs of this class, monoamine reuptake inhibitor. It basically keeps your nerve cells from breaking down excess dopamine, seratonin, and norepinephrine. Same way MDMA, meth, etc work. The difference is really in the ratio of reuptake inhibition between neurotransmitters.
Statements uttered by „(socially/professionally) functional junkies“:
> The outside world can’t really tell that you’re on drugs.
And if you believe that sentence, you’re already a junkie and the drug altered your psychology/character – or you’re being primed for becoming a consumer. As if khat or cocaine users aren’t noticeable as such.
Doesn’t this article read a bit like „it’s not really a drug“?
It’s hard to tell what’s even more despicable: making people perpetually high or contributing to Dr. Zee’s sales by promoting mental and physical deprivation as just another hobby. Look it feels warmer than X, smells better than Y. Now go have some „chem-sex“ with strangers getting your occasional STD. Totally normal
I never understood clubbing. After one hour standing there like an utilty pole and having spend over 100 euro for entrance and two beers or drinks I'm already tipsy enough, I'm out of cash, and I need to visit the filthy toilet.
Then I realised "they are all on drugs, that's why they're enjoying it".
I have heard this take many times. But I don’t get it.
For me 80% of the experience is the music. I can easily enjoy a club for a whole night without taking any drugs if I like the bands or DJs. Choose the night/venue accoring to your music taste and then it’s just like a really long concert.
What about getting tired, both physically and sleepy? Also if everyone around you is on drugs and you are not it's either really annoying or boring AF.
Though I wonder if there is a risk of causing accidents. Feeling focused is not the same as being focused, especially if on drugs. The effect might be ok to get some slick sales presentation over or do some programming work, but that doesn't mean I'd like to be in a car driven by someone on that thing or in the proximity of their weapon.
There are so many drugs used in wars. In addition to the standard stimulants and painkillers, some Russian soldiers in Bucha were using ED pills (viagra) in their campaign to denazify elderly people and children.
In 2014, the U.S. military distributed almost $85 million of Viagra to their ranks. More than 100,000 prescriptions to active-duty soldiers. I get what you are implying but there is usually a rational reason when armies are distributing ED medication.
The title is misleading. 3-MMC differs from Cocaine in that it doesn't turn you into an egomaniac asshole, which is due to its acting on the Serotonin receptors.
I was amused by the compulsively positive way this article is written. I don't think I've had read about "falling in love" with a designer drug or about "chemsex enthusiasts" before.
All good, let people do what they want to do, but no downsides at all, even for the other drugs mentioned?
Cocaine's problem is "the irritation", Ecstasy has too much of a "hard comedown"? And all of them are addictive, but that's just a "potentially fatal flaw"?
Interesting parallel universe you got there.
Oh and:
> Perhaps it will turn out to be like MDMA, which saw its recreational market explode after being banned. So far, 3-MMC’s supply chains, which trace back to industrial labs in China and India, have held steady. With its irresistible mix of pleasure and productivity, 3-MMC might just be the drug for our time.
Illegality? Details, details...
What about:
>> In an era obsessed with both hedonism and productivity...
This sounds like the exhausting root problem, and I don't want to participate in maxing either.
For every addict, there are many responsible adults that can set healthy boundaries and have a positive relationship with recreational drugs. This article is for them.
And for every adult who believes they have healthy boundaries with recreational drugs, how many are addicts? Based on my experience, I find the words healthy and recreational to be carrying too much water in this context.
A key component of setting healthy boundaries is being honest about the downsides and the problems when used irresponsibly.
This article is not that at all.
I don't see an audience description in the article.
Especially if you're a responsible adult, wouldn't you want to be informed about the downsides?
Awful take on the matter.
They’re all responsible adults until something goes wrong and they do something horrible.
A responsible adult prepares in advance for any risk of something horrible happening. This is why sober Trip Sitters exist. There is actually a market for this; you can pay someone to be your designated driver of drugs. Very common
mhm, just take a look at many families that were destroyed thanks to alcohol
If you don't know at least a few chemsex enthusiasts, you might be leading a pretty sheltered life. While I'm not into chemsex, it's not exactly uncommon either. Plenty of folks out there getting high and going at it because they enjoy the experience more.
> you might be leading a pretty sheltered life.
Or (and stick with me here) you might be normal.
This is a weird article. 3-MMC has been around for a long time and was banned in both Europe and America years ago because it’s not new. The article even says so right in the middle.
I wonder if this was written by someone who recently discovered 3-MMC and is in the honeymoon phase where they think their use is only positive and the good times will never end. Quotes like this are not something you’ll hear from experienced users of this type of drug:
> “When you take it, you don’t feel ‘high,’ ” he explained. “You just feel better, with a little bit of pep in your step. It’s a functional tool, and it’s also very stealth. The outside world can’t really tell that you’re on drugs.”
There’s a subreddit dedicated to discussions of these research chemicals. It’s a strange place because it’s filled with stories that start out like this, which attract dozens of comments from more experienced users trying to warn the new user that those feelings aren’t going to last and that their altered state isn’t as covert as they believe. There are also a lot of posts from people desperate for advice about how to recover after hitting rock bottom from months of using these drugs, having discovered that they could not, in fact, take it forever like they original thought.
I don’t know what this article is, but if it made you think 3-MMC is a secret to partying hard and being productive forever without any notable downsides (other than the oh by the way it’s a little addictive aside) then you should know that this is what all of the honeymoon phase stories look like with every drug addiction stories.
Basically that’s her schtick. Every second insta post is „Drugs are good mhmkay?“
"It did have a moreish quality that could trigger compulsive redosing for some users, but it was also easy to get."
What an odd way of saying that it's addictive.
It's a very specific way of saying "addictive," which I appreciate. Different drugs are addictive for different reasons, and redosing is triggered by different physiological inputs.
Compulsive redosing refers to a short-term addictive quality. It feels good so you take more.
Addictive can mean a lot of things. Opiates have agonizing, long-lasting withdrawal effects that can trigger redosing over the course of months or years. That's also a meaning of "addictive" but one that is intentionally not included by the author's wording.
I heard it was a variety they have in southern Spain that is particularly morish.
Very peep-show(uk) coded.
“I tell you what this crack is really moreish”
https://youtu.be/tAlPwnkQURg?is=bkeM3A4zbVRDVJRb
Almost any thing humans enjoy is addictive to some people.
Not the same. A substance that literally travels into your dopamine system and modifies it is going to be more addictive than eating some sugar or playing a slot machine
Bad false equivalence.
There are a lot of exotic compounds now, and the law doesn't cover many of them.
However, the human brain has finite known chemistry (if I recall it is under 14 types of possible highs excluding hallucinogens), and note many malformed neurotransmitters from Erythroxylum coca can make people sociopathic or psychotic during the 10 month average withdrawal period.
The schizophrenic symptoms a highly poisonous Datura stramonium family causes has almost no one lining up to ever experience a nightmare trip rolling in their own excrement for 10 days. However, some native tribes still guide young folk through the experience as a rite of passage ceremony.
Addiction is a nuisance by comparison, but some experiences go well beyond synthetic catharsis or a chemical lobotomy. Most drugs are legal in my country now, but it hasn't made people healthier or more responsible.
Most of these plants grow naturally in many areas, and there are worse things around... which is why one should always garden with gloves on, and never burn unknown greenery. =3
I had this exact phrasing ready to paste in the comments. I do wonder if it's describing doing more of it in the moment, rather than over time.
Yeah. Addiction is usually long-term. Compulsive redosing is taking another unplanned dose of the drug while still high.
like the difference between someone who intended to have 3 drinks, but once they're 2 drinks in it makes them want to have 3 more drinks, and the familiar alcoholic.
When I read things like this I feel like I’ve lived a sheltered life, and am happy about that.
Really? You're not a chemsex enthusiast ready to join Captain Zee and his crew of psychonauts aboard the S.S. Khatterprise?
Surprisingly good article. I wish more time was spent on the negatives. You don't read that its addictive until the last paragraph.
Until then it seem to be pro-3MMC in how it's talked about which I think is dangerous. The history of it however is fascinating.
every recreational drug is addictive in the same way as weed or sex or anything else that feels good. thats nothing to be concerned about.
the problem is when something gives you physical dependence like heroin or heavy drinking where you cant just decide to quit because your body adapts to the drug and you will get sick without it, and i dont know if thats the case with 3-MMC.
Agreed, but even some physical dependency seems to be acceptable, though surely only because they're grandfathered in. For example caffeine
If a drug is compatible with a healthy social or productive lifestyle it would seem unreasonable to ban it. Danger of withdrawals might be a consideration.
Caffeine is pretty safe. The withdrawals, for those of us who experience them, are safe if unpleasant.
There's prescription drugs that cause dependency but are widely prescribed. Gabapentin is a good example?
Alcohol is the drug that best fits the "grandfathered" idea, since it's for many folks not compatible with a healthy lifestyle and the withdrawals can be fatal. Alcohol is impossible to ban, though, because the precursors are in every grocery store on the planet and grow on trees
There are many prohibited substances that are more "compatible with a healthy social or productive lifestyle" than legal substances. The actual criteria for a ban seems to be if it isn't alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, or prescribed by a doctor.
I’ve always been skeptical about caffeine’s alleged physical dependence. I’m a two or three cups a day consumer, but I’ve quit many times and never felt any different. This has been entirely by accident, like forgetting to pack coffee on a 2 week back packing trip, or purchasing decaf coffee by mistake, and didn’t even realize I wasn’t drinking for several days
"I've quit many times" is a telltale sign of chronic addiction
Caffeine’s physical dependence is well documented, you’re by definition an outlier.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-004-2000-x
Caffeine withdrawal symptoms don't last more than 1-2 weeks. And we're talking about headaches, feeling sluggish... not dying, like other drugs.
Can cause hyponatremia. Which is where your blood sodium is too low and your brain can swell due to osmosis, destroying it.
> “Stories come tumbling out, not because you can’t stop talking about yourself, but from an earnest yearning to share authentically and be received, while simultaneously promoting deeper listening and presence.”
In this age of turning away from network media and embracing video podcasts, this seems like something some talk show host would offer—coffee? Water? Chatty drugs?
> “When you take it, you don’t feel ‘high,’ ” he explained. “You just feel better, with a little bit of pep in your step. It’s a functional tool, and it’s also very stealth. The outside world can’t really tell that you’re on drugs.”
This sounds like Brave New World.
Thing is, it’s just not true. 3-MMC spins you up hard and it would be extremely obvious in a work setting, for example. These are just the words of a user that wants to believe that no one knows when they’re using.
It sounds like the thing every addict tells themself at the beginning.
There’s a term for it: Delusions of sobriety.
It sounds like coffee.
"It’s a functional tool, and it’s also very stealth. The outside world can’t really tell that you’re on drugs."
Okay then
No, it’s just another designer drug and not a particularly new one. If you want a productivity drug there are more effective, more studied alternatives. If you want a party drug then you should probably take whatever is at the party. I think half of this article is selling fomo to people that haven’t been to ‘those parties’
It arrived at least 6 years ago, at least in Europe. Before the fairly recent ban you could get it delivered to your mailbox from a website
I imagine that after the ban, you still can
NSFW site...
For all that Playboy may have some NSFW attached, their articles section is pretty tame. Also published a lot of good sci-fi over the years...
Yeah the “I read it for the articles!” claim does have a nugget of truth to it, lots of well known authors published stories in the magazine, Jimmy Carter even sat for an interview with the magazine.
What is its mechanism of action?
Like most drugs of this class, monoamine reuptake inhibitor. It basically keeps your nerve cells from breaking down excess dopamine, seratonin, and norepinephrine. Same way MDMA, meth, etc work. The difference is really in the ratio of reuptake inhibition between neurotransmitters.
That could inevitably downregulate dopamine receptors, and so it could stop working at the same dose, otherwise risk psychosis.
4-MMC / Mephedrone is one of the most useful compounds for researching the phenomenology of bliss
Statements uttered by „(socially/professionally) functional junkies“:
> The outside world can’t really tell that you’re on drugs.
And if you believe that sentence, you’re already a junkie and the drug altered your psychology/character – or you’re being primed for becoming a consumer. As if khat or cocaine users aren’t noticeable as such.
Doesn’t this article read a bit like „it’s not really a drug“?
It’s hard to tell what’s even more despicable: making people perpetually high or contributing to Dr. Zee’s sales by promoting mental and physical deprivation as just another hobby. Look it feels warmer than X, smells better than Y. Now go have some „chem-sex“ with strangers getting your occasional STD. Totally normal
I never understood clubbing. After one hour standing there like an utilty pole and having spend over 100 euro for entrance and two beers or drinks I'm already tipsy enough, I'm out of cash, and I need to visit the filthy toilet.
Then I realised "they are all on drugs, that's why they're enjoying it".
I have heard this take many times. But I don’t get it. For me 80% of the experience is the music. I can easily enjoy a club for a whole night without taking any drugs if I like the bands or DJs. Choose the night/venue accoring to your music taste and then it’s just like a really long concert.
What about getting tired, both physically and sleepy? Also if everyone around you is on drugs and you are not it's either really annoying or boring AF.
“Disco naps” and caffeine.
Not everyone needs drugs to enjoy music and dancing.
Especially autistic people, for some reason. My theory is that rhythmic music stimulates the pattern recognition part of your brain.
You're going to the wrong clubs if you're spending €100
London, Paris, southern Spain, Balearic. If you're a male then 100eur per night is a bargain.
surprised it's not being used in war
Soviets/Russia came up with a whole bunch of abusive drugs to deal with cold and exhaustion (racetams, etc)
Sometimes I go read the WADA banned list just to see what people are messing with
(cathinones and derivatives already banned by WADA)
A lot of the stuff comes out of horse racing
How do you know it's not used in the wars?
Though I wonder if there is a risk of causing accidents. Feeling focused is not the same as being focused, especially if on drugs. The effect might be ok to get some slick sales presentation over or do some programming work, but that doesn't mean I'd like to be in a car driven by someone on that thing or in the proximity of their weapon.
There are so many drugs used in wars. In addition to the standard stimulants and painkillers, some Russian soldiers in Bucha were using ED pills (viagra) in their campaign to denazify elderly people and children.
In 2014, the U.S. military distributed almost $85 million of Viagra to their ranks. More than 100,000 prescriptions to active-duty soldiers. I get what you are implying but there is usually a rational reason when armies are distributing ED medication.
Was this to test the limits of "don't ask don't tell"?
You probably don't want your soldiers all wound up and ultra-horny during an offensive.
The Nazis gave you speed as part of a standard kit. That's why the Blitzkrieg was done in one wave with no rotations.
The drawback is that those soldiers were all a health wreck after 4-5 years on that stuff.
"you can’t stop talking about yourself, but from an earnest yearning to share authentically".
Well, that killed it for me. Talking? Honestly?
Dear lord, no.
I know, and worse yet, LISTENING. Ugh. /s
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Account 4 minutes old, randomised hex name, only two comments, comment contains no substance, comment repeats government propaganda.
It's actually quoting South Park
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Yes, it's called AI.
(Now I want to see half of silicon valley come to an illegal AI rave with racks of computer terminals telling them they're absolutely right)
Before clicking through to the article I honestly expected it to be about AI!
The title is misleading. 3-MMC differs from Cocaine in that it doesn't turn you into an egomaniac asshole, which is due to its acting on the Serotonin receptors.
>> "you can’t stop talking about yourself, but from an earnest yearning to share authentically"
Kinda sounds like a rationalizing egomaniac asshole.