I've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough that the cost are irrelevant. I'm running it in Oh My Pi with a second instance running as "advisor" and even with 5-6 active sessions (effectively 12 streams) I'm struggling to spend more than 5 bucks per day.
OpenCode Go even has double limits temporarily so for 10 USD you effectively get 140 USD of tokens to spend. It would impress me if someone could burn that amount with "normal" usage. Even when running multiple sessions.
I have a Claude Max subscription but I've barely touched it, it just feels like a step back to have to think about limits and usage even though the models are stronger.
The beauty of intelligence at this cost (even if it's not SOTA) is that it opens a whole bunch of new use cases. Test failure in CI? Have the bot automatically propose a fix, its cheap enough that you can discard it w/h issues. Test coverage too low? Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests! Monitoring server logs, continuous security audits and investigating every received exception now becomes possible.
I'm thinking about having it automatically filter and re-rank my social media feeds so I can steer the algorithm instead of the other way around.
Perhaps other people (with enormous budgets) were already doing all of the above but for us this is a really exciting release!
How is $5/day irrelevant? In the $150/mo range you can get effectively unlimited usage of GPT 5.6 Sol (Pro plan). Why use a much weaker model for the same price?
I really doubt that the either of the pro plans are subsidized heavily enough to support you swapping v4Flash for Terra, much less Sol.
$5/days is ~330 Mtok/day, that’s a nontrivial amount of work, and none of the gpts are more efficient than deepseek at $/task if deepseek meets your quality bar.
not at all true. if you're truly using it across the board for smaller things (translation of pages, filtering of every individual tweet based on its relevance to you etc), the costs ramp up super quickly.
i used for work where i did less and it quickly reaches thousands if you're not careful. i can already see what some will say: skill issue et cetera - whatever.
I've posted a few times about my project that's a collection of 30k-250k webapps that are served from a WebDAV server. The apps know how to write updated copies of themselves back to the server.
My family uses it. I have gallery apps (yearbooks for each year are a lot of fun!) of us on trips and just living, an outlining app that's a mesh of Workflowy and Org Mode (it's called Fluxtral), a markdown-backed app (it uses marked.min.js, and is called Dextral) that offers documents, logs, calendars, and kanban boards, all parsed from markdown. I have a List app for gear, trips, shopping, etc. that we all can contribute to. There are utilities (world clock, calendar) and games (an oracle for RPGs, a KenKen implementation), and apps (a diagram editor that exports to SVG, a web-launcher that uses pneumonics, a Scheme-based hacking environment, and a spreadsheet that does most of what you'd expect aside from Solver and Pivot tables).
I started these projects before AI, and made slow progress over the years, but the modern versions of all this stuff have been built with Deepseek V4 Flash. I've also used Gemini in the very early days, and Kimi K2.6 later on, but these days, since I can now host Deepseek v4 Flash 0731 in a 2-bit quant on my Strix Halo box (128GB, but only about 250GB/s of memory bandwidth, so 15t/s), I used Deepseek with omp for almost everything. It's a very capable model, and I'm amazed I can run it locally and get good results. It's really revolutionary for my (small) use cases.
Dax (from Opencode) has tweeted that they can replicate or beat the price with rented GPUs. Deepseeks secret sauce is the incredibly cheap caching (magnitude cheaper than other providers).
vLLM has recently released a similar approach. It's not as effective as what DeepSeek does but still an interesting development.
I have no doubt that in due time other providers will match or perhaps even beat the current DeepSeek prices.
As someone who recently tried it on some blackwell cards, it's possible to match the prices especially the input can be even cheaper and output can match the costs so you can easily build a net 20-30% margin business even at current GPU prices.
The entire issue is caching, I tried to write some custom to dump to disk kv-caching using some ideas from their papers and my experience with snapshots and vm checkpoint systems, I must say they must have really squeezed that lemon it's hard.
Atleast me with Sol couldn't figure it out over a couple days, a few hours each day, which isn't much but I did feel a bit stuck with existing solutions and felt like I might have to write something from scratch. But if you are willing to put in the effort into the infra I do think it's doable. But it will be really hard to pull it off.
My congrats to anyone who manages to pull it off, they might be able to kill off most AI labs. Assuming they can find the compute, Deepseek really has killed all models for me other than Sol/Fable/Opus/K3 tier stuff.
One read is 1) they're getting a lot of traffic for Flash, 2) they've said they're updating Pro soon and expect that to lead to a traffic spike for Pro, but 3) that would leave them overloaded, so 4) they're going to raise prices to avoid it.
It's interesting that most open models adding 1M context did it in a way that reduces KV cache size (though DeepSeek was the most aggressive, using compressed attention on all layers), but only a couple providers turned it into a discount on cache reads.
Eh, what are you guys even talking about? Deepseek is not cheapest provider as is, and it's MIT. So deepseek making it more expensive to use is just nonsense, they can only change their own pricing. It's the beauty of MIT license and open weights. If anything, these models are some of the safest in the world to use if you worry about a rug pull.
> Deepseeks secret sauce is the incredibly cheap caching (magnitude cheaper than other providers).
Can anyone working at one of the main US labs (Google, OpenAI, Anthropic) comment on WTF they haven't even tried MLA - despite the obvious massive advantages?
I know enough to know they aren't completely incompetent. So there must be a quite good reason.
But it remains a mystery to me.
DeepSeek's MLA is like almost 2 years old at this time. They've got thousands of people working on this stuff. They clearly have the ability to at least try it...
There’s a measurable performance tradeoff versus gqa so there’s reluctance.
For the most part though the new deepseek v4 tech is hca and mhc and people are still catching on like with moe and rl. Wait for 6 12 months, minimum time for next pre train.
Yes, there is warning, but also there are many providers on OpenRouter[0], hosting open weight model with similar pricing. The question is Will they go up as well?
If you're on the DeepSeek Platform, you'd see this:
"We plan to raise the overall pricing for DeepSeek API services in the near future, with a significant increase expected. Please plan your usage accordingly. The specific pricing plan will be subject to official notice."
> I'm thinking about having it automatically filter and re-rank my social media feeds so I can steer the algorithm instead of the other way around.
I hadn't really thought about this but AI may well be the technology that disrupts and ultimately destroys social media.
The value proposition of something like FB or IG is, as we know, the network effect. The platform gets to extract value from user generated content. I believe that users should own the platform, a bit like the Wikimedia Foundation, because they're the ones that create value. Federation is a popular belief on HN and I've come to believe that's simply the wrong solution to the right problem.
Anyway, how these social media companies make money is by optimizing the feed for engagement. People know it too so you see people trying to build an audience by rage baiting. And then more time spent equals more advertising revenue.
But what happens when the AI can simply slurp all the posts and then filter and rank them? It destroys the engagement and advertising model. And I'm not opposed to that, honestly. It may be on eof the few good thing sto come out of AI.
Depends on the prompt I think. If it's just "Generate tests plz" then I agree, but if its
"If this PR adds any new endpoints, ensure that there are functional and integration tests. If there are not, please investigate the feasibility and appropriateness, and create functional tests using the guide found on our wiki for guidance https://www.ourdevwiki.site/how-to-make-functional-tests" then maybe it could add some value.
But that very much depends on the specific system. Some tests are obvious, some not so much.
These posts have to be Chinese bots, these models are all trash. Used it via OpenCode for an hour, cost me one hour of my life. It is for anything complete trash.
(1) you used opencode
(2) what provider did you use. openrouter is trash because they shit up the model serving. no max effort and horrific cache utilization, on the order of 50-75%, absolutely garbage. beware
Yes, but even the cheapest providers on OpenRouter are charging at least 10x what DeepSeek does for cached input tokens, which is where DeepSeek gets most of the cheapness.
This would be more convincing if those providers had converged on a number that was not the exact pricing of DeepSeek themselves. Clearly DeepSeek is setting the price here and without them holding it down I expect increases.
Kimi K3 was an interesting model only a month ago, and now we're looking at the same performance for 1/20th of the price. Wild how fast this is advancing.
Real question: is there anybody that is both maintaining alpha-dev capability by keeping abreast of all these daily changes, while also reserving enough time to actually work?
Seems like we've reached the event horizon of whether AI advances are worth paying attention to.
In my use, DeepSeek v4 Flash (which replaced the quite excellent MiniMax M3) lags behind GLM 5.2 & Muse Spark 1.2 (let alone Kimi K3). Also, K3 is a much bigger multi-modal model, while Flash is text-only and likely optimised for coding tasks.
Yep, and the v4 flash final is about 2.5x slower than preview making it no longer a fast model, in fact slower than Luna and bigger models in many cases.
Spark is actually the interesting one imo. It's significantly better, also significantly faster. If you are ok with letting Meta soak up your data (which DS does too) it's also the same price.
Not for long, Deepseek is saying they will have a significant price jump soon. They really shouldn’t do it because they are on the cusp of capturing the scalable API market.
They need to be able to serve their market. The price increase is partly load shedding. If they improve their ability to serve their load, they can always drop it again, as OpenAI did with Luna recently.
I strongly recommend trying this for programming tasks.
It is strong (not Fable strong though) with a much better “persona” than Opus, and very different blindspots. If you flip between Claude and this you will find both catch the mistakes of the other before they get out of control.
On balance I actually prefer DeepSeek for programming now, because of the way it talks.
This also reflects my experience and should put to bed the distillation rumours. This model feels nothing like the Claude models, including tone and blindspots.
It's not frontier, but it's far past what we had at the beginning of the year. It's very usable. I get great instruction compliance, tool calling, and with a trivial workflows flow it has very good long-running performance as well.
Oke of the great advantages of v4 flash 0731 is that even in the largest size unsloth quantized gguf, Q8 K XL, it will fit well within the resources of a 256GB DRAM server. If you have no gpu at all and are okay with setting up a workflow that handles slow token per second rate, give it a task and check back in 4-6 hours, it works great. And remember to give it more lengthy tasks to run overnight. Whatever workflow you set up, the idea is to keep it busy 24x7 doing different things in parallel.
DeepSeek is my cheap and cheerful Chinese model of choice for API use. Has been for a while, but now it's Flash instead of Pro. Even cheaper, and now better then Pro. I feel like most of the major Chinese models are benchmaxxed, they have weird quirks every time I use them (Qwen 3.8 Max doesn't check its work and leaves stuff broken, doesn't write tests unless prompted, etc., Kimi ends up being quite expensive and rarely better than GPT Sol or Opus 5), while DeepSeek models seem to be generally as good as the benchmarks indicate: Not the best, but stronger across the board than any model within an order of magnitude of its price.
I'll grant it's very thorough when assigned a troubleshooting task. I'm not as confident of its code review though it is very good at security vulnerability auditing, and isn't hobbled for that work like Fable, and even Opus refuses some work in that area now.
I’ve been refreshing hacker news constantly for a week now waiting for v4 pro, after they stated it would follow «soon». I have learnt «soon» is a matter of definition.
Tell your PjM who should tell your PgM who should tell your PdM, all the PMs...
Maybe if "the business" sees it is true of LLMs, they might believe it's true of giving better context to engineers up front then giving them time to think and prototype (thinking tokens are an answer prototype).
I'm really excited for where the open weight models go from here. I've had fun with just CPU inference on old servers that only have AVX1; here's hoping for commoditized TPU-like hardware!
I'm still not sure, there's a promo going on now, but generally Go gives $60 of API credit and right now it might be $120 with deepseek. But $20/month OpenAI subscription I believe gives you many hundreds of API-equivalent usage? I've heard $100/month giving many thousands API-equivalent per month.
I love DeepSeek V4 Flash since the pre-0731, now even more. It is the first model that is truly too cheap to meter.
But I find it having a pretty significant problem with tool calling - no idea why, but tool calling with it is SLOW. As long as the model is reasoning, all good. But give it a bunch of tools and it becomes extremely slow.
They did recently announce they're increasing prices though (got a mail yesterday I think), so not sure this analysis showing it as price outlier will last
This latest DeepSeek is almost at the "too cheap to meter" level. That's going to be a larger unlock than models like Fable/Mythos that are way too expensive to justify, IMO.
If I had the GPU size, hook it up to llama.cpp and setup the --reasoning-budget and reasoning-message; Most of that additional reasoning is a lot of garbage and you can redirect it to useful output.
As an end consumer, I don't care about the number of active parameters. I really do care only about the tracked metric (how well does it do the job, and how much does it cost... ideally also with time included, but that wouldn't fit on a 2D chart)
It's an excellent metric, the amount of applications not viable now due to cost/latency/throughput is vastly bigger than the amount of current use cases. Even current ones do benefit, e.g. it's a great executor subagent.
Price is confounded by VC subsidies, economies of scale, and inference optimizations. I think a more interesting chart would be ARC AGI vs forwards pass flops or ARC AGI vs training tokens. Of course we don't have those numbers for the closed source models or even some of the open weight ones.
weak argument. deepseek v4 flash is open weight, you can easily find other providers with competitive price with Deepseek (except for input caching), some even half as cheap.
I've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough that the cost are irrelevant. I'm running it in Oh My Pi with a second instance running as "advisor" and even with 5-6 active sessions (effectively 12 streams) I'm struggling to spend more than 5 bucks per day.
OpenCode Go even has double limits temporarily so for 10 USD you effectively get 140 USD of tokens to spend. It would impress me if someone could burn that amount with "normal" usage. Even when running multiple sessions.
I have a Claude Max subscription but I've barely touched it, it just feels like a step back to have to think about limits and usage even though the models are stronger.
The beauty of intelligence at this cost (even if it's not SOTA) is that it opens a whole bunch of new use cases. Test failure in CI? Have the bot automatically propose a fix, its cheap enough that you can discard it w/h issues. Test coverage too low? Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests! Monitoring server logs, continuous security audits and investigating every received exception now becomes possible.
I'm thinking about having it automatically filter and re-rank my social media feeds so I can steer the algorithm instead of the other way around.
Perhaps other people (with enormous budgets) were already doing all of the above but for us this is a really exciting release!
How is $5/day irrelevant? In the $150/mo range you can get effectively unlimited usage of GPT 5.6 Sol (Pro plan). Why use a much weaker model for the same price?
I really doubt that the either of the pro plans are subsidized heavily enough to support you swapping v4Flash for Terra, much less Sol.
$5/days is ~330 Mtok/day, that’s a nontrivial amount of work, and none of the gpts are more efficient than deepseek at $/task if deepseek meets your quality bar.
not at all true. if you're truly using it across the board for smaller things (translation of pages, filtering of every individual tweet based on its relevance to you etc), the costs ramp up super quickly.
i used for work where i did less and it quickly reaches thousands if you're not careful. i can already see what some will say: skill issue et cetera - whatever.
I thought it went without saying that GPT 5.6 Sol is the wrong model to use for things like filtering tweets. Apparently not?
> In the $150/mo range you can get effectively unlimited usage of GPT 5.6 Sol (Pro plan)
Not true. Sol on XHigh or Max runs out even on the $200/mo plan. It's not close to effectively unlimited. Maybe at 2x the current allowance it can.
> it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything
which in your case is?
I've posted a few times about my project that's a collection of 30k-250k webapps that are served from a WebDAV server. The apps know how to write updated copies of themselves back to the server.
My family uses it. I have gallery apps (yearbooks for each year are a lot of fun!) of us on trips and just living, an outlining app that's a mesh of Workflowy and Org Mode (it's called Fluxtral), a markdown-backed app (it uses marked.min.js, and is called Dextral) that offers documents, logs, calendars, and kanban boards, all parsed from markdown. I have a List app for gear, trips, shopping, etc. that we all can contribute to. There are utilities (world clock, calendar) and games (an oracle for RPGs, a KenKen implementation), and apps (a diagram editor that exports to SVG, a web-launcher that uses pneumonics, a Scheme-based hacking environment, and a spreadsheet that does most of what you'd expect aside from Solver and Pivot tables).
I started these projects before AI, and made slow progress over the years, but the modern versions of all this stuff have been built with Deepseek V4 Flash. I've also used Gemini in the very early days, and Kimi K2.6 later on, but these days, since I can now host Deepseek v4 Flash 0731 in a 2-bit quant on my Strix Halo box (128GB, but only about 250GB/s of memory bandwidth, so 15t/s), I used Deepseek with omp for almost everything. It's a very capable model, and I'm amazed I can run it locally and get good results. It's really revolutionary for my (small) use cases.
> which in your case is?
oh, they're mad.
But DeepSeek now has a warning they’re going to sharply increase their API pricing sometime in the future.
Dax (from Opencode) has tweeted that they can replicate or beat the price with rented GPUs. Deepseeks secret sauce is the incredibly cheap caching (magnitude cheaper than other providers).
vLLM has recently released a similar approach. It's not as effective as what DeepSeek does but still an interesting development.
I have no doubt that in due time other providers will match or perhaps even beat the current DeepSeek prices.
As someone who recently tried it on some blackwell cards, it's possible to match the prices especially the input can be even cheaper and output can match the costs so you can easily build a net 20-30% margin business even at current GPU prices.
The entire issue is caching, I tried to write some custom to dump to disk kv-caching using some ideas from their papers and my experience with snapshots and vm checkpoint systems, I must say they must have really squeezed that lemon it's hard.
Atleast me with Sol couldn't figure it out over a couple days, a few hours each day, which isn't much but I did feel a bit stuck with existing solutions and felt like I might have to write something from scratch. But if you are willing to put in the effort into the infra I do think it's doable. But it will be really hard to pull it off.
My congrats to anyone who manages to pull it off, they might be able to kill off most AI labs. Assuming they can find the compute, Deepseek really has killed all models for me other than Sol/Fable/Opus/K3 tier stuff.
One read is 1) they're getting a lot of traffic for Flash, 2) they've said they're updating Pro soon and expect that to lead to a traffic spike for Pro, but 3) that would leave them overloaded, so 4) they're going to raise prices to avoid it.
It's interesting that most open models adding 1M context did it in a way that reduces KV cache size (though DeepSeek was the most aggressive, using compressed attention on all layers), but only a couple providers turned it into a discount on cache reads.
Eh, what are you guys even talking about? Deepseek is not cheapest provider as is, and it's MIT. So deepseek making it more expensive to use is just nonsense, they can only change their own pricing. It's the beauty of MIT license and open weights. If anything, these models are some of the safest in the world to use if you worry about a rug pull.
90%+ cache hit rate is common, and so you'll see on places like openrouter that Deepseek cache cost is indeed a magnitude cheaper than the rest.
My usage thus far from api.deepseek.com
Total cost: $8.7851936928 (approximately $8.79)Cache:
Hit rate: 98.582% (1,265,646,976 / 1,283,855,064)There's more to inference than just the input/output token cost. Caching has a massive impact.
Deepseek charges $0.0028 per cache read on Openrouter. The next cheapest is $0.018.
That's a massive difference and quickly adds up on coding sessions (which often hit 95%+ cached tokens).
Cached input tokens are what drives most costs.
I'll believe it when I see it. Their prices are still much higher than deepseek, especially the caching.
any link to this caching tech?
[Feat][Core] Add disk offloading support to SimpleCPUOffloadConnector — #49644 https://github.com/vllm-project/vllm/pull/49644
This adds disk as a tier in the HBM → CPU → Disk KV cache hierarchy.
There's also a cluster of related KV-offload FS PRs: #49225 (read/write batching, still open) and #49152 (batch store/load in C, merged Jul 28).
It's hard to say if these are similar to the approach DeepSeek takes but they definitely seem very interesting.
> Deepseeks secret sauce is the incredibly cheap caching (magnitude cheaper than other providers).
Can anyone working at one of the main US labs (Google, OpenAI, Anthropic) comment on WTF they haven't even tried MLA - despite the obvious massive advantages?
I know enough to know they aren't completely incompetent. So there must be a quite good reason.
But it remains a mystery to me.
DeepSeek's MLA is like almost 2 years old at this time. They've got thousands of people working on this stuff. They clearly have the ability to at least try it...
They already are?
There’s a measurable performance tradeoff versus gqa so there’s reluctance.
For the most part though the new deepseek v4 tech is hca and mhc and people are still catching on like with moe and rl. Wait for 6 12 months, minimum time for next pre train.
Are they not?
The big US labs are opaque and don't publish much of any technical details anymore. We don't know what they are or aren't doing, honestly.
Yes, there is warning, but also there are many providers on OpenRouter[0], hosting open weight model with similar pricing. The question is Will they go up as well?
[0] https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#provid...
DeepSeek has far cheaper cache pricing. That's the difference.
I assume/hope this is about prices going up for the next release of Pro
even if they double it it`s from such a low base it is still supercheap
Source?
If you're on the DeepSeek Platform, you'd see this:
"We plan to raise the overall pricing for DeepSeek API services in the near future, with a significant increase expected. Please plan your usage accordingly. The specific pricing plan will be subject to official notice."
https://www.reddit.com/r/DeepSeek/comments/1vgpysh/deepseek_...
>even if it's not SOTA
And, probably 99.99% of people using LLM probably don't even need SOTA anyway.
At least on these benchmarks, it seems to be pretty handily scoring up with the SOTA from 6 months ago?
What's the best harness to use with it?
I've enjoyed using https://omp.sh/
Seconded. I love OpenCode and Pi, but omp is my daily driver.
> I'm thinking about having it automatically filter and re-rank my social media feeds so I can steer the algorithm instead of the other way around.
I hadn't really thought about this but AI may well be the technology that disrupts and ultimately destroys social media.
The value proposition of something like FB or IG is, as we know, the network effect. The platform gets to extract value from user generated content. I believe that users should own the platform, a bit like the Wikimedia Foundation, because they're the ones that create value. Federation is a popular belief on HN and I've come to believe that's simply the wrong solution to the right problem.
Anyway, how these social media companies make money is by optimizing the feed for engagement. People know it too so you see people trying to build an audience by rage baiting. And then more time spent equals more advertising revenue.
But what happens when the AI can simply slurp all the posts and then filter and rank them? It destroys the engagement and advertising model. And I'm not opposed to that, honestly. It may be on eof the few good thing sto come out of AI.
> Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests!
this seems like such a bad idea
Depends on the prompt I think. If it's just "Generate tests plz" then I agree, but if its
"If this PR adds any new endpoints, ensure that there are functional and integration tests. If there are not, please investigate the feasibility and appropriateness, and create functional tests using the guide found on our wiki for guidance https://www.ourdevwiki.site/how-to-make-functional-tests" then maybe it could add some value.
But that very much depends on the specific system. Some tests are obvious, some not so much.
>Test coverage too low? Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests!
Terrible use-case.
Terrible comment.
These posts have to be Chinese bots, these models are all trash. Used it via OpenCode for an hour, cost me one hour of my life. It is for anything complete trash.
I've found it to be pretty good so far.
You're mad.
Point 1 finger out, and you point 4 back.
(1) you used opencode (2) what provider did you use. openrouter is trash because they shit up the model serving. no max effort and horrific cache utilization, on the order of 50-75%, absolutely garbage. beware
What should we be running deepseek on besides opencode? I chose it because I heard good things. Also provider is directly through deepseek credits.
oh you used opencode go?
harness: omp.sh
DeepSeek has announced an upcoming "significant increase" in price, so this line may have to move to the right soon. https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing/
Why? It's open weight, there are plenty providers on open router that are serving the latest v4 flash at 0.14/0.28 $.
Yes, but even the cheapest providers on OpenRouter are charging at least 10x what DeepSeek does for cached input tokens, which is where DeepSeek gets most of the cheapness.
This would be more convincing if those providers had converged on a number that was not the exact pricing of DeepSeek themselves. Clearly DeepSeek is setting the price here and without them holding it down I expect increases.
The most expensive defines the price. Others need to be just slightly cheaper.
Kimi K3 was an interesting model only a month ago, and now we're looking at the same performance for 1/20th of the price. Wild how fast this is advancing.
Real question: is there anybody that is both maintaining alpha-dev capability by keeping abreast of all these daily changes, while also reserving enough time to actually work?
Seems like we've reached the event horizon of whether AI advances are worth paying attention to.
Are you saying we've reached peak Bike shedding?
Yeah either the benchmark isn't very useful anymore or V4 Flash is a really, really good model.
GPT 5.6 Luna is an extremely cheap and still very capable model.
A chinese model being in the same ballpark of capability at half the price sounds believable to me.
In my use, DeepSeek v4 Flash (which replaced the quite excellent MiniMax M3) lags behind GLM 5.2 & Muse Spark 1.2 (let alone Kimi K3). Also, K3 is a much bigger multi-modal model, while Flash is text-only and likely optimised for coding tasks.
Yep, and the v4 flash final is about 2.5x slower than preview making it no longer a fast model, in fact slower than Luna and bigger models in many cases.
Spark is actually the interesting one imo. It's significantly better, also significantly faster. If you are ok with letting Meta soak up your data (which DS does too) it's also the same price.
Not for long, Deepseek is saying they will have a significant price jump soon. They really shouldn’t do it because they are on the cusp of capturing the scalable API market.
They need to be able to serve their market. The price increase is partly load shedding. If they improve their ability to serve their load, they can always drop it again, as OpenAI did with Luna recently.
And now nobody seems interested in it because the price hasn't gone down
it's still $3/$15 for all providers on openrouter
because of some Kimi license
https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3#providers
Morph has it for a slight discount, apparently.
Uptime looks crap, though.
I strongly recommend trying this for programming tasks.
It is strong (not Fable strong though) with a much better “persona” than Opus, and very different blindspots. If you flip between Claude and this you will find both catch the mistakes of the other before they get out of control.
On balance I actually prefer DeepSeek for programming now, because of the way it talks.
This also reflects my experience and should put to bed the distillation rumours. This model feels nothing like the Claude models, including tone and blindspots.
I used it for one hour and it completely wasted my time. It is just too stupid for anything beyond println("I am retarded")
It's not frontier, but it's far past what we had at the beginning of the year. It's very usable. I get great instruction compliance, tool calling, and with a trivial workflows flow it has very good long-running performance as well.
Last weeks's discussion (591 points): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49120299
Oke of the great advantages of v4 flash 0731 is that even in the largest size unsloth quantized gguf, Q8 K XL, it will fit well within the resources of a 256GB DRAM server. If you have no gpu at all and are okay with setting up a workflow that handles slow token per second rate, give it a task and check back in 4-6 hours, it works great. And remember to give it more lengthy tasks to run overnight. Whatever workflow you set up, the idea is to keep it busy 24x7 doing different things in parallel.
Wish more people understood this
DeepSeek is my cheap and cheerful Chinese model of choice for API use. Has been for a while, but now it's Flash instead of Pro. Even cheaper, and now better then Pro. I feel like most of the major Chinese models are benchmaxxed, they have weird quirks every time I use them (Qwen 3.8 Max doesn't check its work and leaves stuff broken, doesn't write tests unless prompted, etc., Kimi ends up being quite expensive and rarely better than GPT Sol or Opus 5), while DeepSeek models seem to be generally as good as the benchmarks indicate: Not the best, but stronger across the board than any model within an order of magnitude of its price.
Qwen 3.8 Max is very strong at troubleshooting and code review.
I'll grant it's very thorough when assigned a troubleshooting task. I'm not as confident of its code review though it is very good at security vulnerability auditing, and isn't hobbled for that work like Fable, and even Opus refuses some work in that area now.
I'm curious how much worse the 0731 quantizations do.
This reminds me of those pareto-style speedrun record charts when a new glitch is discovered.
[0] https://taylor.town/silver-landmines
When I see dramatic leaps like this, it tells me that the important hacks haven't yet been discovered.
I'm curious... is anyone using DeepSeek V4 Flash from HugginFace? Is the cost around the same as directly form DeepSeek or from Openrouter?
Been running it using Prime Agent and absolutely love it.
I’ve been refreshing hacker news constantly for a week now waiting for v4 pro, after they stated it would follow «soon». I have learnt «soon» is a matter of definition.
I guess you mean a "new" v4 pro?
> been refreshing hacker news constantly for a week now waiting for v4 pro
https://reddit.com/r/DeepSeek is where the fellow F5ers are at.
It's always fun when Max reasoning is cheaper than High reasoning.
Rework is expensive.
Tell your PjM who should tell your PgM who should tell your PdM, all the PMs...
Maybe if "the business" sees it is true of LLMs, they might believe it's true of giving better context to engineers up front then giving them time to think and prototype (thinking tokens are an answer prototype).
That's a pretty great score for a model you can run on as (expensive) laptop.
I just used it for some Kubernetes + FluxCD tasks and oh my is it good.
I'm really excited for where the open weight models go from here. I've had fun with just CPU inference on old servers that only have AVX1; here's hoping for commoditized TPU-like hardware!
wow. i remember when GPT-5.2 (medium) was everyone's favorite.
ARC-AGI II:
- GPT-5.2 (medium) %26.7 ($0.759)
- DSV4-Flash (max) %61.4 ($0.04)
results comparable to gpt 5.6 luna but cheaper
promising!
Since the x-axis is log-scaled, DeepSeek is much cheaper than visually implied (mousing over the raw values, it's 1/4th the cost of Luna).
Is this pricing from Deepseek with training on usage?
Per the announcement tweet, BaseTen was the inference provider which has 20% cache cost that is typical: https://www.baseten.co/library/deepseek-v4-flash-0731/
Ah thanks. That looks like 10x cost on cache reads vs Deepseek as the provider: https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#provid...
Might not actually be that much cheaper, we don't know what margin OpenAI is charging on Luna API. Open models likely have much less margin.
Is it still cheaper than Luna if using an OpenAI subscription? My gut is no, but I have not done the math.
You'd have to compare against something like the OpenCode Go subscription, and I'm fairly sure deepseek napkins out cheaper in that scenario
I'm still not sure, there's a promo going on now, but generally Go gives $60 of API credit and right now it might be $120 with deepseek. But $20/month OpenAI subscription I believe gives you many hundreds of API-equivalent usage? I've heard $100/month giving many thousands API-equivalent per month.
Everything is cheaper if using a subscription, but some applications require API usage.
That page needs a Pareto frontier display. But wow, it absolutely demolishes.
It is wild that this a log scale of cost to me!
so cool. does it mean it can understand the verificated code
Why wasn’t this run against ARC-AGI-3? Or did it fail to solve anything?
They tweeted that ARC-AGI-3 results take longer to run, so we’ll need wait a bit longer.
I love DeepSeek V4 Flash since the pre-0731, now even more. It is the first model that is truly too cheap to meter.
But I find it having a pretty significant problem with tool calling - no idea why, but tool calling with it is SLOW. As long as the model is reasoning, all good. But give it a bunch of tools and it becomes extremely slow.
Am I the only one experiencing this?
They did recently announce they're increasing prices though (got a mail yesterday I think), so not sure this analysis showing it as price outlier will last
That is only when using the DeepSeek API directly. OpenRouter has 24 different providers serving it at existing prices.
This latest DeepSeek is almost at the "too cheap to meter" level. That's going to be a larger unlock than models like Fable/Mythos that are way too expensive to justify, IMO.
What secret sauce do they have?
limited resources, no modern GPUs, no $10 billion dev budgets.
pair it with codewhale, 50 agents, 200 MB of ram.
No secrets—all published. Very efficient attention. Excellent kernels. Great caching subsystem. Small and well trained model.
Price raise incoming
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49198661
they are probably out of compute due to demand increases. since its an open model, other provides could offer similar prices as well
https://x.com/thdxr/status/2085377844515922210
The DeepSeek team is so strong, very impressive.
Imagine if they had GPU resources of western labs.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
SV companies get way too comfortable when they have enough in the bank to stay running more than three months.
It's serviceable but, like many Chinese models, it uses a lot of tokens to get work done.
>it uses a lot of tokens to get work done.
That's irrelevant when you use $/task as the metric, which the OP does use.
It also affects the time.
It felt like a rocket compared to GLM 5.2 though. Are Chinese models generally token-heavy?
https://artificialanalysis.ai/?cost=intelligence-vs-cost-per...
If I had the GPU size, hook it up to llama.cpp and setup the --reasoning-budget and reasoning-message; Most of that additional reasoning is a lot of garbage and you can redirect it to useful output.
That's how I handle the Qwen27B and 35B
Price is not a good meter. Active parameters per token are. Joule would be even better.
What if we used 100% of the brain all the time?
As an end consumer, I don't care about the number of active parameters. I really do care only about the tracked metric (how well does it do the job, and how much does it cost... ideally also with time included, but that wouldn't fit on a 2D chart)
It's an excellent metric, the amount of applications not viable now due to cost/latency/throughput is vastly bigger than the amount of current use cases. Even current ones do benefit, e.g. it's a great executor subagent.
Energy and intelligence are good too, sure.
Price accounts for computational/architectural efficiency improvements whereas active parameters does not.
for someone with a limited budget it is actually very important because it makes me less scared to experiment.
Price is confounded by VC subsidies, economies of scale, and inference optimizations. I think a more interesting chart would be ARC AGI vs forwards pass flops or ARC AGI vs training tokens. Of course we don't have those numbers for the closed source models or even some of the open weight ones.
DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731 is an open-weights model which means price is determined by competition/invisible hand of the marketplace: https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731
With the exception of cache costs, all providers have similar input/output costs.
Not counting the cost of making the model, which is subsidized by… someone? The chinese gov i think?
Subsidized by inference profits and volume.
weak argument. deepseek v4 flash is open weight, you can easily find other providers with competitive price with Deepseek (except for input caching), some even half as cheap.