I'm a good target market for pro-coffee writing, but this is just an observational study of a drinks habit. No one in the general public should have any interest in studies of this kind.
Maybe if you're deep in working in this research space it could help generate hypotheses for more meaningful research? But "we cross sectionally compared two groups with different behaviors and found they were different" is not really a result.
The endless articles about studies that are pro-coffee make me highly skeptical. They all feel like advertising by the coffee industry to help coffee addicts feel good about their habit instead of feeling like they should cut back.
it could be that coffee acts directly on the endocrine system as they suggest, or coffee allows you to work out longer (or work out at all since you don't want to sit still) which leads to the effects they observed
I'm curious why they don't mention tea actually, are they suggesting it's not the caffeine that's doing it?
granted recent studies showed decaf coffee has some benefits itself, so it could be some of the other compounds present in coffee, but a discussion of this would be useful
I don't know if it's the word "addicts" that maybe doesn't have to be a negative, or if it's not the right word at all for "functional addicts", but I feel like the "addiction" people have to coffee is much more behavioral than chemical (although there is physiological withdrawal symptoms too), compared to other "harder" drugs like cocaine or heroin. The clear negative effects from long-term use is also a lot much evidence with one side of these, coffee not so much.
Not sure you have to cut back on something that you really enjoy, so much that you wanna do it every day, even if you get cranky when someone (sometimes you) ruin this ceremony for you. Why would you cut back when the biggest negative is spending 10-20EUR a month on some nice coffee you can consume every single morning?
Is there a net benefit that you see, ignoring the fact that you're no longer dependent?
I've stopped a half dozen times, for around a month each time, but I found that I like the way my brain functions with coffee. The risk of a headache seems like a net win for me, in the grand scheme, especially since I try to do what I can to reduce the risk of dementia and Alzheimers.
I constantly hear coffee drinkers say how much they drink with shame and that they should cut back. It's one of the most common things I hear when someone is talking about their coffee consumption.
Personally, I stopped drinking caffeine when I was around 19 after I figured out it was the source of my chronic headaches (from withdrawal). I had to talk my dad out of taking me to a neurologist at one point in high school. My quality of life went up significantly after cutting caffeine and going through the week-long headache.
Whether you consider all of them not "bad" or worth the benefits is up to you. People also consider moderate consumption of alcohol worth its benefits.
Everyone has a different risk profile. Know the risks and choose as you please.
I feel that way about the endless studies showing fiber is important for health, too. Because there's no way studies re-confirm findings because they're revealing truth. It's definitely Big Leaf at work.
Addiction implies dependence. If you feel unable to be a productive member of society without a psychoactive substance that you must ingest daily, then I have bad news for you.
The meat, tobacco, alcohol, etc industries would like very much to be able to do this but haven't with much larger budgets.
Caffeine causes increased locomotor activity. It's possible that the apparent benefits of coffee may occur because it causes drinkers to move around more (exercise). Other drugs also do this, but usually with more side-effects. Reductions in all-cause mortality associated with coffee consumption are broadly distributed across cardiovascular disease, cancer, which qualitatively resemble the benefits of exercise. Increased testosterone is also an effect of regular exercise:
High SHBG and lower free hormones isn't a good thing usually. Starving and anorexia (as an example) can make your SHBG levels skyrocket, resulting in low free hormone levels.
Weirdly, I cannot copy text from that page. What am I doing wrong?
Regardless, here is the result summary:
> Higher coffee intake groups showed lower total and visceral fat and higher skeletal muscle mass, while BMI was comparable across groups. Inverse correlations were observed between coffee intake and circulating branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs) in both sexes. In men, higher coffee intake correlated with a more favourable glucose-insulin profile. Multivariable-adjusted models revealed a distinct hormonal pattern: positive associations with total testosterone (β = +0.29 nmol/L per cup/day), bioavailable testosterone, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), alongside inverse associations with free testosterone and the free androgen index (FAI). In women, hormonal associations were more limited, with positive associations for SHBG and inverse associations for free testosterone and FAI.
This part: "positive associations with total testosterone (β = +0.29 nmol/L per cup/day)". For testosterone, 1 nmol/L ≈ 28.8 ng/dL. So: +0.29 nmol/L ≈ +8.4 ng/dL per additional cup/day.
Really, this will have no meaningful impact on your health. It is widely discussed by TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) doctors that supplements that can increase your total test by 100ng/dL will have no meaningful impact. Literally, you need to drink 12 cups of coffee per day to get a ~100ng/dL improvement. You are going to have a lot of second order effects from drinking 12 cups of coffee per day! I would never recommend it.
Love coffee, drink it every day. This study is just as useful as other studies that correlate coffee with negative outcomes. Which is to say, it’s a study that just shows some correlations. Causation is not particularly likely. Drink coffee if you like it but don’t expect health benefits or harms.
For people who are already addicted to sugar, yes, coffee tastes more aggressive than the drinks full of insane amounts of sugar or artificial sweeteners.
Meanwhile in Asia beans are considered sweet bc their food isn't overloaded with sugar.
It sounds like you're equating "aggressive" with "sweet".
Coffee has a very strong taste (even without sugar). Stronger than anything on the list. I'd wager that the reason some people add a lot of sugar is to make up for that strong taste.
5 hour energy drinks have almost no sugar. Much milder taste than coffee.
> Meanwhile in Asia beans are considered sweet bc their food isn't overloaded with sugar.
Yes, my inference was "people consume caffeine, and if one group is getting it from coffee, the other group is getting it from non-coffee, mostly (highly-caloric) soda water, which explains why the coffee side looks healthier."
I'm a good target market for pro-coffee writing, but this is just an observational study of a drinks habit. No one in the general public should have any interest in studies of this kind.
Maybe if you're deep in working in this research space it could help generate hypotheses for more meaningful research? But "we cross sectionally compared two groups with different behaviors and found they were different" is not really a result.
The endless articles about studies that are pro-coffee make me highly skeptical. They all feel like advertising by the coffee industry to help coffee addicts feel good about their habit instead of feeling like they should cut back.
Either point out weaknesses in the study, or dubious funding behind it etc. Or just stick with saying that you prefer tea.
it could be that coffee acts directly on the endocrine system as they suggest, or coffee allows you to work out longer (or work out at all since you don't want to sit still) which leads to the effects they observed
I'm curious why they don't mention tea actually, are they suggesting it's not the caffeine that's doing it?
granted recent studies showed decaf coffee has some benefits itself, so it could be some of the other compounds present in coffee, but a discussion of this would be useful
Decaf still has caffeine; about 30% of the original from the bean iirc.
Tea, as well as caffeine, has other compounds that are calming.
And yes, there are plenty of other compounds in coffee, as well as purely psychological effects.
Or links between the study and coffee industry
Or possibly one of those who stick to only water.
AmishNews
> coffee addicts
I don't know if it's the word "addicts" that maybe doesn't have to be a negative, or if it's not the right word at all for "functional addicts", but I feel like the "addiction" people have to coffee is much more behavioral than chemical (although there is physiological withdrawal symptoms too), compared to other "harder" drugs like cocaine or heroin. The clear negative effects from long-term use is also a lot much evidence with one side of these, coffee not so much.
Not sure you have to cut back on something that you really enjoy, so much that you wanna do it every day, even if you get cranky when someone (sometimes you) ruin this ceremony for you. Why would you cut back when the biggest negative is spending 10-20EUR a month on some nice coffee you can consume every single morning?
I've known people with disabling headaches until they hit 200mg+ of caffeine in the AM. They are caffeine addicts.
>you wanna do it every day, even if you get cranky when someone (sometimes you) ruin this ceremony for you
This is addicted behavior; the bar is far lower than most people use the word for.
My father's one of those people who get a headache unless they get their morning cup of tea. That is what deters me from caffeine.
Why should they feel like cutting back? Where’s the evidence that it’s bad for you?
I cut back because I found that I couldn't go a day without it without a massive headache.
Took me 2 weeks to stop craving coffee. And about a month until I started to feel right.
I still have the occasional coffee but don't drink it every day. I like it this way.
I miss it like I missed cigarettes after I quit those.
Is there a net benefit that you see, ignoring the fact that you're no longer dependent?
I've stopped a half dozen times, for around a month each time, but I found that I like the way my brain functions with coffee. The risk of a headache seems like a net win for me, in the grand scheme, especially since I try to do what I can to reduce the risk of dementia and Alzheimers.
I suppose for me the net benefit is I can do without it. I don't like the feeling of being dependent on something.
I like that I can just get up and go do something without having to get a coffee to stave off a headache and be fully functional.
Like I say I'm not t-total I just have a different relationship with coffee now, one where I'm in control and I can use it rather than needing it.
I constantly hear coffee drinkers say how much they drink with shame and that they should cut back. It's one of the most common things I hear when someone is talking about their coffee consumption.
Personally, I stopped drinking caffeine when I was around 19 after I figured out it was the source of my chronic headaches (from withdrawal). I had to talk my dad out of taking me to a neurologist at one point in high school. My quality of life went up significantly after cutting caffeine and going through the week-long headache.
Shame due to what? Because they are suffering somehow or because they feel like it must be bad for them because they enjoy it?
It causes:
- High heart rate and blood pressure
- Increased risk of arrhtymia
- Less deep sleep
- Disruption to your cortisol level dynamics
Whether you consider all of them not "bad" or worth the benefits is up to you. People also consider moderate consumption of alcohol worth its benefits.
Everyone has a different risk profile. Know the risks and choose as you please.
I feel that way about the endless studies showing fiber is important for health, too. Because there's no way studies re-confirm findings because they're revealing truth. It's definitely Big Leaf at work.
Addiction implies harm. What is the harm in coffee consumption?
Addiction implies dependence. If you feel unable to be a productive member of society without a psychoactive substance that you must ingest daily, then I have bad news for you.
The meat, tobacco, alcohol, etc industries would like very much to be able to do this but haven't with much larger budgets.
Caffeine causes increased locomotor activity. It's possible that the apparent benefits of coffee may occur because it causes drinkers to move around more (exercise). Other drugs also do this, but usually with more side-effects. Reductions in all-cause mortality associated with coffee consumption are broadly distributed across cardiovascular disease, cancer, which qualitatively resemble the benefits of exercise. Increased testosterone is also an effect of regular exercise:
https://journals.bioscientifica.com/ec/article/6/5/306/35211...
High SHBG and lower free hormones isn't a good thing usually. Starving and anorexia (as an example) can make your SHBG levels skyrocket, resulting in low free hormone levels.
Here is the original study: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-026-04038-z
Weirdly, I cannot copy text from that page. What am I doing wrong?
Regardless, here is the result summary:
This part: "positive associations with total testosterone (β = +0.29 nmol/L per cup/day)". For testosterone, 1 nmol/L ≈ 28.8 ng/dL. So: +0.29 nmol/L ≈ +8.4 ng/dL per additional cup/day.Really, this will have no meaningful impact on your health. It is widely discussed by TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) doctors that supplements that can increase your total test by 100ng/dL will have no meaningful impact. Literally, you need to drink 12 cups of coffee per day to get a ~100ng/dL improvement. You are going to have a lot of second order effects from drinking 12 cups of coffee per day! I would never recommend it.
I often drink a 12 cup pot in a day. No noticeable effects.
Why are coffee cups smaller than cups?
Maybe I’m just slow, but it makes doing the mental math a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Maybe I just need more coffee.
Love coffee, drink it every day. This study is just as useful as other studies that correlate coffee with negative outcomes. Which is to say, it’s a study that just shows some correlations. Causation is not particularly likely. Drink coffee if you like it but don’t expect health benefits or harms.
I wonder if the mechanism of action here is increased caffeine consumption resulting in more/longer duration/higher intensity exercise.
Only if it’s coffee from Brazil :-)
Something I learned years ago: caffeine doesn't directly "wake you up" it merely causes a trickle of adrenaline release.
So I'm guessing you could get the same boost from exercise, probably moreso.
Anything that elevates the heart rate for a bit is generally good for humans.
This is not the mechanism by which caffeine promotes wakefulness.
That's totally wrong.
For one, caffeine is a known adenosine antagonist. The effects of adenosine is described as "drowsiness" or "relaxed".
This was not a caffeine consumption study.
I like coffee and drink about 5 to 7 Nespresso capsules a day. Except when I forget, or have no access to coffee.
I did not notice any change between these two extremes.
I also drink a lot of coffee and I really hate it when I'm visiting a client and they offer me only 1 or 2 cups of coffee during the day!
Maybe because the other way to get Caffine is in drinks full of corn syrup.
You can get corn syrup free monsters everywhere. Or those 5 hour ones, or Celsius or whatever.
The reason to prefer coffee is that it tastes less aggressive than those I think
Coffee tastes more aggressive than all of those.
For people who are already addicted to sugar, yes, coffee tastes more aggressive than the drinks full of insane amounts of sugar or artificial sweeteners.
Meanwhile in Asia beans are considered sweet bc their food isn't overloaded with sugar.
It sounds like you're equating "aggressive" with "sweet".
Coffee has a very strong taste (even without sugar). Stronger than anything on the list. I'd wager that the reason some people add a lot of sugar is to make up for that strong taste.
5 hour energy drinks have almost no sugar. Much milder taste than coffee.
> Meanwhile in Asia beans are considered sweet bc their food isn't overloaded with sugar.
Red bean paste?
The study links it to better metabolic health. Did you assume it meant worse?
I think they're saying that coffee is a healthier habit than soda.
Yes, my inference was "people consume caffeine, and if one group is getting it from coffee, the other group is getting it from non-coffee, mostly (highly-caloric) soda water, which explains why the coffee side looks healthier."
Title sounds terrible, but the effects are positive from what I understood?
Not effects, just observations, as the article also states.
Obligatory reminder about correlation != causation, as indicated in the article itself:
> However, as this was an observational study, the findings demonstrate associations rather than cause-and-effect relationships.
More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau...
People don't need this reminder on Hacker News. Maybe on Reddit, but even there it's dogma repeated by damn near everyone.