The post ends with a comment on "its not about being pedantic..." so, a few not being pedantic bits:
In the table "Real world examples";
"Claude Desktop" houses three harnesses at the moment; Claude, Claude Cowork, and Claude Code.
"Claude CLI", I presume, is referring to Claude Code CLI. This is distinct from the 'ant CLI', which is sometimes referred to as 'Claude CLI'.
"Cursor" could be any of them- but, 'Cursor Agents', 'Cursor Cloud Agents', 'Cursor CLI', and whatever the vscode fork is called now, are distinct. Maybe not in the context of this blog post, but it isnt specified which is being referred to in the example table.
"ChatGPT" sounds like the chatgpt web interface. OpenAI's desktop app is named 'ChatGPT Desktop', and now houses 'ChatGPT work' and 'Codex' (Codex Desktop, not the TUI, though it does essentially wrap the tui and give it capabilities through app-built-in tools). I believe the ChatGPT web interface's harness can change a bit, depending on settings + subscription level (remote sandboxes, etc.) Additionally, there is a distinction in available models depending on which "ChatGPT" product is being used (instant/live/etc non-5.6 luna/terra/sol suite).
Inference service is more accurately 'default inference provider'.
Why "layers"? The constituents of a Multi-agent System (MAS) [1] are called "agents". BTW: Synecdochical semantic diffusion is not uncommon in software engineering
Real-life usage of interchangeable or synecdochical word triumphs in real life.
My take on the post is for engineering disciple where JoeJag wants to create a common word while tackling "Agent" issues.
I like Joe's approach as this disambiguates during troubleshooting without trying to figure out under which "context" other engineers are using Agent vs. Models.
You get lost in context just like AIs do without such disambiguation.
Well first off if you ask Microsoft everything is Copilot.
Secondly the confusion is designed to benefit the bull** by using ambiguous language they can do as humpty dumpty did in Alice in Wonderland and say "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean. Neither more nor less"
Which benefits whatever they are pushing.
Beware those that attempt to muddle language and avoid precision in speaking.
I've literally never heard anyone conflate an agent and a model. Ever.
Often with posts like this I imagine someone had their own confusion and then somehow projected it on everyone else. Like Trump thinking people didn't know about the word groceries or that dumb ends with a b.
> I often hear people use the words agent and model interchangeably
_what_ people. Would I hear one of my colleagues do this, I'll slap them across the face. With a 4 pounds salmon. Alive.
> to help us have more precise conversations.
What problem are you trying to solve. _Why_ you need more precise conversations.
I mean, I understand what you aiming at. But is it really worth it to go nitpicking at people's mental models, is the gain worth it?
You can argue that the model has access to that tool through the harness the same way your brain has access to see this comment through your body (your eyes specifically).
Well, at least as an LLM provider you should use the right nomenclature. I just tried to sign up for Mistral. Who have Vibe (former le Chat), then they have Vibe Code, which is the same as Vibe for Code, is that like Claude Code? No, their harness is called Vibe Cli. So is Vibe Code a model? No, it is a "mode" for Vibe (the web interface). Not sure how it's different from "Chat" (the mode) but it forces you to use a project, there are no other differences it seems.
No idea what the underlying model is for any of this. More over, I don't ever vibe code, I check and understand the code that is generated by my LLMs. And yet, I use Vibe Code (the product) all day.
Lost the thread yet? I did... Tbh, it also took some time between Anthropic starting the push towards Claude Code and me understanding what is really was. Using terms interchangeably during this time of discovery is absolutely maddening. For Mistral it comes on top of their rename of services from "le Chat" and Mistral Code (still in parts of the UI) to Vibe and Vibe (for) Code.
> When you can name the layer, you can fix the layer. That is the whole point of being precise. It is not about being pedantic. It is about being able to improve things faster and more effectively.
Also, for any given fact, tons of people aren't aware. Anything you already know is news to a sizeable number of people.
The post ends with a comment on "its not about being pedantic..." so, a few not being pedantic bits:
In the table "Real world examples";
"Claude Desktop" houses three harnesses at the moment; Claude, Claude Cowork, and Claude Code.
"Claude CLI", I presume, is referring to Claude Code CLI. This is distinct from the 'ant CLI', which is sometimes referred to as 'Claude CLI'.
"Cursor" could be any of them- but, 'Cursor Agents', 'Cursor Cloud Agents', 'Cursor CLI', and whatever the vscode fork is called now, are distinct. Maybe not in the context of this blog post, but it isnt specified which is being referred to in the example table.
"ChatGPT" sounds like the chatgpt web interface. OpenAI's desktop app is named 'ChatGPT Desktop', and now houses 'ChatGPT work' and 'Codex' (Codex Desktop, not the TUI, though it does essentially wrap the tui and give it capabilities through app-built-in tools). I believe the ChatGPT web interface's harness can change a bit, depending on settings + subscription level (remote sandboxes, etc.) Additionally, there is a distinction in available models depending on which "ChatGPT" product is being used (instant/live/etc non-5.6 luna/terra/sol suite).
Inference service is more accurately 'default inference provider'.
Also, this post has an ai-generated smell.
Author here. My writing process is:
* Write: Use FluidVoice to get all the text down in my own voice
* Edit: Ask ChatGPT etc to criticise the article
* Cleanup: Grammarly
* Publish: Good old GitHub Pages
An agent, in general, is just whatever carries out a task on behalf of someone/something else.
> An agent system is made up of several layers.
Why "layers"? The constituents of a Multi-agent System (MAS) [1] are called "agents". BTW: Synecdochical semantic diffusion is not uncommon in software engineering
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-agent_system
Real-life usage of interchangeable or synecdochical word triumphs in real life.
My take on the post is for engineering disciple where JoeJag wants to create a common word while tackling "Agent" issues.
I like Joe's approach as this disambiguates during troubleshooting without trying to figure out under which "context" other engineers are using Agent vs. Models.
You get lost in context just like AIs do without such disambiguation.
Well first off if you ask Microsoft everything is Copilot.
Secondly the confusion is designed to benefit the bull** by using ambiguous language they can do as humpty dumpty did in Alice in Wonderland and say "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean. Neither more nor less" Which benefits whatever they are pushing.
Beware those that attempt to muddle language and avoid precision in speaking.
I've literally never heard anyone conflate an agent and a model. Ever.
Often with posts like this I imagine someone had their own confusion and then somehow projected it on everyone else. Like Trump thinking people didn't know about the word groceries or that dumb ends with a b.
On other news, water wets.
> I often hear people use the words agent and model interchangeably
_what_ people. Would I hear one of my colleagues do this, I'll slap them across the face. With a 4 pounds salmon. Alive.
> to help us have more precise conversations.
What problem are you trying to solve. _Why_ you need more precise conversations. I mean, I understand what you aiming at. But is it really worth it to go nitpicking at people's mental models, is the gain worth it?
> _what_ people.
Eric from alignment and research at OpenAI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87DyyMV0kCY
It honestly bothers me so much when he says "This new model has access to x". No, the harness you allowed it use at runtime has access to x.
You can argue that the model has access to that tool through the harness the same way your brain has access to see this comment through your body (your eyes specifically).
Well, at least as an LLM provider you should use the right nomenclature. I just tried to sign up for Mistral. Who have Vibe (former le Chat), then they have Vibe Code, which is the same as Vibe for Code, is that like Claude Code? No, their harness is called Vibe Cli. So is Vibe Code a model? No, it is a "mode" for Vibe (the web interface). Not sure how it's different from "Chat" (the mode) but it forces you to use a project, there are no other differences it seems.
No idea what the underlying model is for any of this. More over, I don't ever vibe code, I check and understand the code that is generated by my LLMs. And yet, I use Vibe Code (the product) all day.
Lost the thread yet? I did... Tbh, it also took some time between Anthropic starting the push towards Claude Code and me understanding what is really was. Using terms interchangeably during this time of discovery is absolutely maddening. For Mistral it comes on top of their rename of services from "le Chat" and Mistral Code (still in parts of the UI) to Vibe and Vibe (for) Code.
You sound like a manager, not an engineer.
Wait, your entire comment is on how one should not nitpick someone's mental models but isn't that you nitpicking at someone's mental models? sus
Totally the wrong site to post this on. Joe, don't you see that we talk about this stuff day in day out?
From TFA:
> When you can name the layer, you can fix the layer. That is the whole point of being precise. It is not about being pedantic. It is about being able to improve things faster and more effectively.
Also, for any given fact, tons of people aren't aware. Anything you already know is news to a sizeable number of people.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1053/
I get your point, my 80 yo mother doesn't care.
I don't think the TFA has your 80 year old mother as its intended audience.
The irony that you sent an xkcd link to prove your point is not lost on me.
> Also, for any given fact, tons of people aren't aware.
Double points for Gryffindor.