“Runs a Windows message loop
Has a title bar, minimize, maximize, and close buttons, which all work as expected
Has a system menu with the same
Paints the background and some text centered in the middle, equal to or larger than "Dave's Tiny App"”
That Linux program:
“Let’s take an incredibly simple program, one that does nothing but return a number back to the operating system”
You know? FOR ONE expression our current neuralese-spewing friends could standarize on - I'd not mind this one (and the ilk) becoming "load-bearing", again.-
Interesting to bypass CRT and work directly against the Windows API. That said, these rely on USER.32.DLL and KERNEL32.DLL to do the majority of the heavy lifting.
It's a bit like 'smallest hello world in assembly' but the code is just setting up the calling convention and then passing the zero-terminated character string into `write`. Cool, but that could be done a bit more straightforwardly in C, too. A lot of assembly (including in the linked repository) is book-keeping for the platform's calling convention.
KERNEL32.DLL (in spite of the name) provides user-mode system services for the Windows API. The CRT provides the C99 API. There are many entry points to the same thing on Windows; you can do any of `malloc`/`HeapAlloc`/`new`/`VirtualAlloc` to get a void* memory buffer. `malloc` is from the CRT; `HeapAlloc` is from KERNEL32.DLL, and `new` is from the C++ runtime.
I should try FASM to see if it produces a smaller size exe. COM files are small, but 16-bit DOS was the thing back in the day - 100H yeah and basically a memory dump.
What about his contributions to human civilization? ;)
He got a world record score on the Tempest arcade game [1], then developed an AI which beat his own record[2]. His biggest failure was, that after rebuilding TEMPEST from arcade machine ROMS, he added levels to the game but never made them public [3].
love this and it's timely as I think with AI more of my code will just be native assembly for example: https://github.com/taf2/tic-tac-toe my m series native assembly based tic tac toe windowed game... very portable too you just simply execute codex --yolo port my app to x y z host...
I haven't played with yolo yet. I'll have to use my airgapped, old Lenovo ThinkPad for this! Whenever I see yolo, I can't stop thinking of Joseph Redmon's YOLO and his astounding resume format!
Meanwhile in the Unix world you can go as low as 45 bytes https://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.ht...
Unfair comparison. The Windows tool (FTA):
“Runs a Windows message loop Has a title bar, minimize, maximize, and close buttons, which all work as expected Has a system menu with the same Paints the background and some text centered in the middle, equal to or larger than "Dave's Tiny App"”
That Linux program:
“Let’s take an incredibly simple program, one that does nothing but return a number back to the operating system”
See https://archive.is/w01DO#selection-265.0-265.44 for a fairer comparison (97/133 bytes)
Goodness gracious me.-
I hope that expression makes a comeback.
You know? FOR ONE expression our current neuralese-spewing friends could standarize on - I'd not mind this one (and the ilk) becoming "load-bearing", again.-
PS. Honest take :)
Interesting to bypass CRT and work directly against the Windows API. That said, these rely on USER.32.DLL and KERNEL32.DLL to do the majority of the heavy lifting.
It's a bit like 'smallest hello world in assembly' but the code is just setting up the calling convention and then passing the zero-terminated character string into `write`. Cool, but that could be done a bit more straightforwardly in C, too. A lot of assembly (including in the linked repository) is book-keeping for the platform's calling convention.
> That said, these rely on USER.32.DLL and KERNEL32.DLL to do the majority of the heavy lifting.
Since the low-level Windows kernel API is undocumented and non-public, using these system DLLs is your only option on Windows.
It's just like linking against libc.so on any POSIX systems.
It’s a minimal Windows app, so the whole idea is to rely on Windows DLLs as much as possible.
Officially, one should not use KERNEL32.dll for instance but go via crt. In practice, most interfaces are stable.
KERNEL32.DLL (in spite of the name) provides user-mode system services for the Windows API. The CRT provides the C99 API. There are many entry points to the same thing on Windows; you can do any of `malloc`/`HeapAlloc`/`new`/`VirtualAlloc` to get a void* memory buffer. `malloc` is from the CRT; `HeapAlloc` is from KERNEL32.DLL, and `new` is from the C++ runtime.
kernel32 is an official API, you're probably thinking of ntdll. CRT is the C-runtime. Not everything is written in C.
Yes, you are right, must have been thinking of ntdll.
For more of the same (though I wish source was available) which actually does something useful, see the various small utilities at
https://www.grc.com/freepopular.htm
Shields Up!
I should try FASM to see if it produces a smaller size exe. COM files are small, but 16-bit DOS was the thing back in the day - 100H yeah and basically a memory dump.
> 100H yeah and basically a memory dump
... the days! :)
The developer, Dave Plummer, left Microsoft to develop and distribute malware and scams in the 90s. See previous thread at [1].
Nowadays he spreads misinformation disguised as war stories from his time at Microsoft.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39813625
What about his contributions to human civilization? ;)
He got a world record score on the Tempest arcade game [1], then developed an AI which beat his own record[2]. His biggest failure was, that after rebuilding TEMPEST from arcade machine ROMS, he added levels to the game but never made them public [3].
[1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuSMCWu02hA
[2]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdbpoDjIvPk
[3]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjsVSEbXDOM
Do you have any evidence of these (unsubstantiated) claims against him?
Edited with previous threads linking court documents.
He also lied about his contributions to Start menu
love this and it's timely as I think with AI more of my code will just be native assembly for example: https://github.com/taf2/tic-tac-toe my m series native assembly based tic tac toe windowed game... very portable too you just simply execute codex --yolo port my app to x y z host...
I haven't played with yolo yet. I'll have to use my airgapped, old Lenovo ThinkPad for this! Whenever I see yolo, I can't stop thinking of Joseph Redmon's YOLO and his astounding resume format!