>2-Nonenal Newly Found in Human Body Odor Tends to Increase with Aging [2001]
From the paper's abstract: "2-Nonenal, an unsaturated aldehyde with an unpleasant greasy and grassy odor, was detected only in older subjects (40 y or older).
The fact that it's been 25 years since the causative chemical with a "unpleasant greasy and grassy odor" was discovered and yet there's still no counteracting substance available is very surprising.
The Japanese have been obsessed with it since the study came out and have a variety of treatments (tannins in persimmons and greentea) though none have passed large scale clinical trials :)
I was fed a YT video about it recently so it must be part of the "moment".
Also a topic on menopause blogs from searching.
I think there's probably more going on than that one chemical. For example, if I don't go jogging for a week and then go for a run my shirt later after it dries smells like urine. I looked up why and it's because urea builds up in your skin and is excreted with sweat. Maybe this fact just made me paranoid but I swear that I can smell a urea smell on my skin when I don't exercise regularly.
I imagine elderly people aren't out sweating regularly.
I get exactly the same thing. It crept up on me over the past decade of a life where people commented I had to little to no actual distinctive smell, and alas, now I do. What will really make it come out is if I have 2 or more alcoholic drinks the day/night before. The smell reminds me of a friend/coworker from the '90s who didn't bathe regularly and P U.
Daily sweaty cardio is more than enough to control it for me as well. But if you can't, deodorants like Lume cover it up and as others have posted and there are soaps that work better on it than others. I occasionally put all my athletic clothing through a hot wash myself because as someone once said on BlueSky, all clothing is washer-safe if you don't care what happens to it.
Something that made a night and day difference to all my athletic clothing is adding laundry sanitizer to the wash load.
We noticed our running clothes developing this very strong sickly sweet/sweaty smell and it would not go away. Spent time deep cleaning the washer and dryer to no avail.
We now add Lysol laundry sanitizer (just 1 cap, not the recommended 2) to every wash load and the smell completely went away instantly.
I still don't know why all the clothing suddenly developed that smell - I went my whole life without needing to do anything special to my athletic clothes until then.
I guess there's going to be a perfume that breaks down 2-noneal on the market soon.
Tangentially, in my 20s I was in an audience seating and sat next to an old person. And I smelled a new kind of odor. It was displeasing, but not like body odor. I quickly realized it's an old person smell. It really just makes you think "old person". I assume there's some biological wiring in there.
2-Nonenal was discovered to be the source of "old person smell" 25 years ago and we're still waiting:
>2-Nonenal Newly Found in Human Body Odor Tends to Increase with Aging [2001]
From the paper's abstract: "2-Nonenal, an unsaturated aldehyde with an unpleasant greasy and grassy odor, was detected only in older subjects (40 y or older).
Over the course of about a month, this went from being vaguely detectable on my mom to very overpowering (to me). I have a particularly sensitive nose, but now I can be across the room and if she comes over to our house I can smell her by the time I enter the room, even if she's just been let in. It's been about 1 year now and it's just getting stronger.
2-3 times per week shower and lather fully with persimmon extract soap. Plus wash clothes with a “sport”/“activewear” laundry detergent on extra heavy cycle, like Persil Activewear. And yes the soaps and detergents that are effective on nonenal are more expensive.
I interpret that question as "what can I do to stop smelling it, because she is old, stubborn, and is never going to change anything she does and will smell like this 'til the day she dies?"
I have a mother that is a Type-2 diabetic because for decades she refused to eat right or exercise like the doctors told her. She has tracked down every medication known to man to treat the symptoms just so that she doesn't have to give up junk food. And she will never change.
She is on GLPs, still only eats junk food. She is cognitively more alert, but it did nothing for her eating habits or weight.
The problem is, if when you go shopping you only pick up junk food, when you get home you are only going to find junk food. To eat healthy would require a complete overhaul on her life, and she has never been willing to do it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Nonenal
>2-Nonenal Newly Found in Human Body Odor Tends to Increase with Aging [2001]
From the paper's abstract: "2-Nonenal, an unsaturated aldehyde with an unpleasant greasy and grassy odor, was detected only in older subjects (40 y or older).
https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)41198-4/full...
The fact that it's been 25 years since the causative chemical with a "unpleasant greasy and grassy odor" was discovered and yet there's still no counteracting substance available is very surprising.
The Japanese have been obsessed with it since the study came out and have a variety of treatments (tannins in persimmons and greentea) though none have passed large scale clinical trials :)
I was fed a YT video about it recently so it must be part of the "moment". Also a topic on menopause blogs from searching.
https://asayujapan.com/blogs/asayu-blog/persimmon-soap-answe...
https://miraiclinical.com/pages/why-this-ucla-trained-anti-a...
I think there's probably more going on than that one chemical. For example, if I don't go jogging for a week and then go for a run my shirt later after it dries smells like urine. I looked up why and it's because urea builds up in your skin and is excreted with sweat. Maybe this fact just made me paranoid but I swear that I can smell a urea smell on my skin when I don't exercise regularly.
I imagine elderly people aren't out sweating regularly.
I get exactly the same thing. It crept up on me over the past decade of a life where people commented I had to little to no actual distinctive smell, and alas, now I do. What will really make it come out is if I have 2 or more alcoholic drinks the day/night before. The smell reminds me of a friend/coworker from the '90s who didn't bathe regularly and P U.
Daily sweaty cardio is more than enough to control it for me as well. But if you can't, deodorants like Lume cover it up and as others have posted and there are soaps that work better on it than others. I occasionally put all my athletic clothing through a hot wash myself because as someone once said on BlueSky, all clothing is washer-safe if you don't care what happens to it.
Something that made a night and day difference to all my athletic clothing is adding laundry sanitizer to the wash load.
We noticed our running clothes developing this very strong sickly sweet/sweaty smell and it would not go away. Spent time deep cleaning the washer and dryer to no avail.
We now add Lysol laundry sanitizer (just 1 cap, not the recommended 2) to every wash load and the smell completely went away instantly.
I still don't know why all the clothing suddenly developed that smell - I went my whole life without needing to do anything special to my athletic clothes until then.
I guess there's going to be a perfume that breaks down 2-noneal on the market soon.
Tangentially, in my 20s I was in an audience seating and sat next to an old person. And I smelled a new kind of odor. It was displeasing, but not like body odor. I quickly realized it's an old person smell. It really just makes you think "old person". I assume there's some biological wiring in there.
2-Nonenal was discovered to be the source of "old person smell" 25 years ago and we're still waiting:
>2-Nonenal Newly Found in Human Body Odor Tends to Increase with Aging [2001]
From the paper's abstract: "2-Nonenal, an unsaturated aldehyde with an unpleasant greasy and grassy odor, was detected only in older subjects (40 y or older).
https://www.jidonline.org/article/S0022-202X(15)41198-4/full...
Already exists in soap form https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_person_smell#In_Japan
https://miraiclinical.com/products/deodorizing-soap-with-per...
> “It’s just a natural byproduct of skin ageing – not dirt, not poor hygiene,” Javid says.
Did Javid really say this
Over the course of about a month, this went from being vaguely detectable on my mom to very overpowering (to me). I have a particularly sensitive nose, but now I can be across the room and if she comes over to our house I can smell her by the time I enter the room, even if she's just been let in. It's been about 1 year now and it's just getting stronger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_(therapy_cat)
Interesting, I thought it's just individual perception. Never knew there is actually a chemical compound behind it that affects everyone.
any tips on how to get over this. i live with my mom and she has this smell now.
2-3 times per week shower and lather fully with persimmon extract soap. Plus wash clothes with a “sport”/“activewear” laundry detergent on extra heavy cycle, like Persil Activewear. And yes the soaps and detergents that are effective on nonenal are more expensive.
Washing and rinsing in hot rather than cold water helps.
I interpret that question as "what can I do to stop smelling it, because she is old, stubborn, and is never going to change anything she does and will smell like this 'til the day she dies?"
I have a mother that is a Type-2 diabetic because for decades she refused to eat right or exercise like the doctors told her. She has tracked down every medication known to man to treat the symptoms just so that she doesn't have to give up junk food. And she will never change.
Has she tried GLPs?
They pretty directly attack the desire to have junk food. Absolutely incredible drugs.
She is on GLPs, still only eats junk food. She is cognitively more alert, but it did nothing for her eating habits or weight.
The problem is, if when you go shopping you only pick up junk food, when you get home you are only going to find junk food. To eat healthy would require a complete overhaul on her life, and she has never been willing to do it.
article seems to suggest parsimmon doesnt seem to help. but no harm in trying i guess.