I wonder how would this work in terms of fairness to the team that's likely to win. If a match is abandoned, what does it mean for progressing in a tournament, etc. Could there be a perverse incentive to cause a black card to abort a lost game? I'm sure this has all been thought through, but the article doesn't seem to say anything about it.
The new procedure targets inappropriate behavior by parents and spectators directed at children, coaching staff members, referees, match officials, or other parents and spectators. This includes, but is not limited to:
Verbal abuse (insults or profanity), as well as physical assault or shoving of one’s own children;
Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of staff members of one’s own team;
Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of players or staff members of the opposing team;
Continuous challenging, verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of referees and match officials;
Verbal or physical altercations with other parents or spectators.
<<<<<<
If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game, then yes, abandoning the match is probably the right choice. I assume they are only defining a formal procedure for practices that already exist.
>If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game
It's not extremely common in my area, but it is more common than you would think. Parents treat their children like lottery tickets when it comes to athletics. And God help you if you're the unfortunate umpire at a travel league game that makes a questionable call.
The youth sports industry is fucking gross and nobody seems to notice.
Source: we will not let our children participate in travel leagues and they do not want to participate in them either, for this specific reason.
I umpired baseball in my early teens and even 30 years ago it was bad.
Grown men getting into the face of 14 years old umpires over calls, at games for kids barely out of tee-ball. It just doesn’t matter that much.
I remember a coach who would flip over 20 gallon coolers and send ice and drinks flying in the dugout.. in front of his team of 10 years old umpires olds.
That's placing a lot of faith in the maturity and tactical awareness of a teenager. I don't know about the games in Romania, but here in the US, the youth soccer referees are mostly older youths.
In the US, only the youngest games have teenage refs (U10 and younger). And even then, it is only common in the lower competitive tiers. Competitive travel/select league games generally have adult refs (national and regional leagues).
The money is pretty decent for two hours of work (and you can work games back to back to back).
You can't start doing this, the only way it ends is with a full rainbow deck of cards that the referee has to spend 5 minutes digging through every time someone gets tripped.
> The black card being brandished will be the final part of a three-step process. In the first instance, the referee will temporarily suspend the match and ask coaches to speak directly to its team’s supporters and parents, while an announcement will also be communicated to supporters should a public address system be available.
> Should the behaviour continue, the referee will suspend the match for 10 minutes and send the teams off the pitch to their dressing room while once again asking coaches to attempt to de-escalate the behaviour of those in the stands.
> The FRF then detail the process behind using the black card as the final step: “If abusive behaviour persists after play resumes, the referee blows the final whistle. The match is permanently abandoned and cannot be resumed.”
Why is the remedy not simply ejecting the offenders? They get three chances to cancel the game, with the entirety of the punishments being towards people who did nothing wrong?
This is a common misconception. The referee has no control over who is in the stands - they are “outside agents”. Many people think that the referee can eject a spectator, but they can’t. The referee only has authority over the players and coaches.
This is why the first remedy is to ask the coaches to get their parents under control. In general, if the abuse continues, the coach can be carded as that’s the only person the ref can discipline.
From my experience, the refs typically assign responsibility to the head coach of the team the fans represent. It's not the refs job to manage the fans. They are there to manage the game. If the coach or staff determine the problem fans should be removed, they can do that.
I doubt many refs want this responsibility, even if it were feasible. And I don't think it is feasible in most cases. For instance, how is the ref going to pick out the problem fans while also managing the game itself? And how is the ref supposed to enforce the removal?
Keep in mind these refs are often volunteers, working solo, have no official connection to the teams or field owners.
And there is a ref shortage virtually everywhere, at all levels and sports. Making it more difficult just isn't realistic.
I wonder how would this work in terms of fairness to the team that's likely to win. If a match is abandoned, what does it mean for progressing in a tournament, etc. Could there be a perverse incentive to cause a black card to abort a lost game? I'm sure this has all been thought through, but the article doesn't seem to say anything about it.
Quoting from the official website:
>>>>>>
The new procedure targets inappropriate behavior by parents and spectators directed at children, coaching staff members, referees, match officials, or other parents and spectators. This includes, but is not limited to:
Verbal abuse (insults or profanity), as well as physical assault or shoving of one’s own children;
Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of staff members of one’s own team;
Verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of players or staff members of the opposing team;
Continuous challenging, verbal abuse, physical assault, or shoving of referees and match officials;
Verbal or physical altercations with other parents or spectators.
<<<<<<
If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game, then yes, abandoning the match is probably the right choice. I assume they are only defining a formal procedure for practices that already exist.
>If that's the situation in, and it can't be stressed enough, a children soccer game
It's not extremely common in my area, but it is more common than you would think. Parents treat their children like lottery tickets when it comes to athletics. And God help you if you're the unfortunate umpire at a travel league game that makes a questionable call.
The youth sports industry is fucking gross and nobody seems to notice.
Source: we will not let our children participate in travel leagues and they do not want to participate in them either, for this specific reason.
I umpired baseball in my early teens and even 30 years ago it was bad.
Grown men getting into the face of 14 years old umpires over calls, at games for kids barely out of tee-ball. It just doesn’t matter that much.
I remember a coach who would flip over 20 gallon coolers and send ice and drinks flying in the dugout.. in front of his team of 10 years old umpires olds.
I imagine this is the referee's call; a ref ought to know better than to abort the game because the losing team is throwing a tactical tantrum.
That's placing a lot of faith in the maturity and tactical awareness of a teenager. I don't know about the games in Romania, but here in the US, the youth soccer referees are mostly older youths.
In the US, only the youngest games have teenage refs (U10 and younger). And even then, it is only common in the lower competitive tiers. Competitive travel/select league games generally have adult refs (national and regional leagues).
The money is pretty decent for two hours of work (and you can work games back to back to back).
I would assume it’s treated as if the team of the offending parent has abandoned the match.
One can imagine overzealous parents tactically causing a scene to nullify a match result.
Actual source article: https://www.frf.ro/en/frf-introduces-the-black-card-to-comba...
You can't start doing this, the only way it ends is with a full rainbow deck of cards that the referee has to spend 5 minutes digging through every time someone gets tripped.
Did you really pull the "slippery slope" on a change for children football matches to safeguarding them from abuse from spectators?
https://archive.ph/o4V1W
> The black card being brandished will be the final part of a three-step process. In the first instance, the referee will temporarily suspend the match and ask coaches to speak directly to its team’s supporters and parents, while an announcement will also be communicated to supporters should a public address system be available.
> Should the behaviour continue, the referee will suspend the match for 10 minutes and send the teams off the pitch to their dressing room while once again asking coaches to attempt to de-escalate the behaviour of those in the stands.
> The FRF then detail the process behind using the black card as the final step: “If abusive behaviour persists after play resumes, the referee blows the final whistle. The match is permanently abandoned and cannot be resumed.”
Why is the remedy not simply ejecting the offenders? They get three chances to cancel the game, with the entirety of the punishments being towards people who did nothing wrong?
This is a common misconception. The referee has no control over who is in the stands - they are “outside agents”. Many people think that the referee can eject a spectator, but they can’t. The referee only has authority over the players and coaches.
This is why the first remedy is to ask the coaches to get their parents under control. In general, if the abuse continues, the coach can be carded as that’s the only person the ref can discipline.
From my experience, the refs typically assign responsibility to the head coach of the team the fans represent. It's not the refs job to manage the fans. They are there to manage the game. If the coach or staff determine the problem fans should be removed, they can do that.
If it's anything like the UK then it's likely the games are played in a public space like a park, so it might not be possible to eject the parent.
I don't buy it. You can kick someone out of a park for not following the rules of the park. The refs just need to be empowered.
I doubt many refs want this responsibility, even if it were feasible. And I don't think it is feasible in most cases. For instance, how is the ref going to pick out the problem fans while also managing the game itself? And how is the ref supposed to enforce the removal?
Keep in mind these refs are often volunteers, working solo, have no official connection to the teams or field owners.
And there is a ref shortage virtually everywhere, at all levels and sports. Making it more difficult just isn't realistic.
There is nobody to do that. And nobody to make sure they don’t just come straight back.