As someone who lived the first Internet block due to protests with similar demands. This feels refreshing and prove that regimes response to wide spread protests they don’t like is not that different.
Why not just allow genuinely peaceful protests and take stern police/legal action against all other forms of protest? I don't understand the logic behind cutting access to communications platforms. Seems like an indirect or roundabout way of solving the problem.
Social/IM platforms are literally where the violent ones organize. Nobody has issues with the peaceful protests, but in the past couple weeks it's become very clear that violent rioters use the excuse of the peaceful organized protest to infiltrate and wreak havoc, using the peaceful demonstrators as essentially meat shields. That needs to stop. And without readily available social/IM platforms, there's no way the violent ones can coordinate in the hundreds/thousands on a couple hours notice.
That's how it works. Until there's so much rioting the police can't deal with it. What should happen then? Cutting communications seems like a pretty good idea.
The rioters are causing damage they themselves will have to pay for in taxpayer dollars. So their cost of living will go up. The way French people protest is mental. I’m sure the Russians have agents on the ground inciting violence.
The people are concerned about the cost of oil I mean it’s the bombs that hit Iran that caused this not the French government.
Am I missing something? What drives people to burn shops down and assault people the next steps is assault rifles, so they should be happy without social media.
French riot police aren’t great at dealing with protests — and they protesters know this, so the protests escalate rapidly then throw in looting and you end up with a massive mess
Some of the demands are well-intentioned but poorly thought through.
Example: many believe the rich ought to be taxed more; but the problem is the Laffer curve: when they're taxed too much, they work less or leave France. So tax receipts go down (not up). End result: more "fairness" on paper but the people who actually depend on government funding have less of it (e.g. for education).
So the change harms the very people who are protesting for the change.
Taxing rich people, while being a recurring topic, is not part of the current demands. It's firstly high schoolers who want a fair system after the "bac", heat during winter and a roof on their head.
The way the French response overcomplicates things feels analogous to how founders also overcomplicate things:
> many of the conversations we have with founders begin with the founders saying a sentence that begins with "how do I.." and the partner answering with a sentence that begins with "just".
i.e. Often the most absurdly simple solution is the best one.
Because very often the "peaceful protest" provides cover to rioting/looting/property destruction, and it's a lot easier to say/enforce no assembling on the street at 11pm on a Friday as part of a curfew, than to leave a carveout for assembling on that street for a "peaceful protest".
It seems French society will soon embark on the path to total VPNization. Once the government gets a taste of blocking Internet resources, it won't stop.
They are already trying to make them outlawed...
I don't like criticizing the country but the national motto's first word, there are making it nothing but a joke.
Apparently you are only free to hate now, and that's if you hate the right kind of people...
Bolstered by fascists united worldwide.
A shame.
Isn’t that sort of ironic, because BlackBerry was used disproportionately by government and corporate clients? Wouldn’t a ban basically cut off the very people who should have been favoured?
Social media permits Broadcasting for Free. One to All messaging. For all other media - radio, satellite, tv, phones broadcasting requires licenses. Why?
Cuz Claude Shannon told us if everyone broadcasts on the same frequency noise increases and no one hears anything forcing them into broadcasting at higher and higher power or repeating their messages more and more. Which again increases noise. So Broadcasting has always been licensed and regulated. That solved the Noise problem because people were forced to coordinate use of broadcast spectrum.
Social media platforms act as if Shannon doesn't apply. So they do exactly what Shannon predicted. Everyone is broadcasting. No one can be heard clearly. People scream louder and louder. The loudest get locked into arms races. Repeat their messages more and more. At the end of it all Noise hasnt reduced and who gets attention from one day to the next is unpredicatble. And since Platforms dont want to talk about Shannon we are all stuck in some kind of red queen dynamic. People are expending lot of energy. Results are all temporary and unpredictable.
That’s an interesting analogy, but it breaks down somewhat when the messages that get through are those chosen by the government (Facebook, Google, etc) rather than people shouting louder.
Seems like he really wants to limit the spread of videos showcasing the behaviour of the protesters, and their backgrounds... This goes hand in hand with his pathetic speech about how it's all fake news and AI.
And yes, you can in theory install the same software used to punch through the Chinese firewall, but if it doesn't appear in the app store or google play, your new VPN is as good as dead.
There are no technical solutions to political and social problems.
France has been blocking a lot of websites, some quite popular, since at least the Nappster wars and has expanded and expanded and expanded. Recent victims are Z-library, Anna's archive, a lot of satellite TV viewing websites, illegal streaming websites, ...
Of course reasons to block websites has expanded dramatically, especially into the political realm. For political examples, websites collecting video evidence police actions during protests "Copwatch Nord Paris I-D-F", a lot of extreme-right websites (some arguably not very extreme, or should I say, every year that passes the bar of what means extreme-right for blocking purposes is lowered), VPNs, oh and "right-to-be-forgotten" stuff (blocking a number of groups who published details on important French and EU political figures, generally failing to achieve their goal. For a high profile example, ex-president Nicolas Sarkozy used internet censorship to hide evidence of fraud, but got convicted anyway. There's also the example of ... I don't like to agree with the extreme right on anything, BUT, it is sadly absolutely true that LFI (a far left political party, or whatever you want to call leftists that, while absolutely not tankies, are not particularly opposed to using violence to achieve their aims. I think that's fair to say about them) is using internet censorship laws for everything from protecting their members against the police to silencing even internal criticism. Of course it is ALSO true RN commits far more problematic violence)
(obviously the reason LFI wants its members protected from the police, and school administrations and ... is the organizing violence thing they do. A lot of people agree at least with the aims of the protests, and it's not like these people commit murder or anything. But they certainly do cause a lot of destruction of property)
Probably, since not many of us in Europe don't have lots of use cases for them, yet.
But things like our (Spain's) "internet shall not be 100% available during La Liga football matches" or our neighbors thinking of blocking DNS to stop political activism, surely will continue to make this number raise, albeit slowly.
I know there’s a subsection of the internet who for some reason believe VPNs are the solution to everything and better than sliced bread, but VPNs are absolutely unnecessary (and frankly overkill) for these types of blocks. All you have to do is change the DNS service on your machine, which is trivial even for non-technical users and unlike a VPN doesn’t disrupt anything about your computer usage.
You can install an app like 1.1.1.1 to use Cloudflare and there are many apps that will do it for generic DNS. Or manually but you will need to create DNS Profile and install it. It is not hard to generate one, but it is usually used for encrypted DNS which you should be using anyway.
Real rioters will dive into no-DNS internet communication. Most internet protocols were designed with DNS independence in mind (read the email RFC, email addresses can have IP literals instead of DNS names which is of paramount importance, which I use BTW).
Namely, in the end, they will have to switch off telecommunication as a whole... well, if they are not interested in gathering intelligence about the rioters.
And then real rioters will have 'mesh communication devices', and then govs will need EM jammers too.
Sooo... govs should work on good and wide spread EM jammers instead of trying to to block DNS...
When people are rioting for things that didn't happen, because they think they did, because of messages being sent to them by an enemy, then you stop that enemy.
Although the current riots precisely start because stuff that did not happen: having a stable teacher (or at all) for the courses they’re suppose to study.
Marcon got rid of the inheritance tax, cut worker's rights, and reduced the capital gains tax. He also tried to raise the retirement age but people protested so much, it was blocked eventually.
Both Melenchon and Le Pen have promised to increase spending and reduce taxes. That type of promise is a great vote winner, and people believe it. In 2022 Pecrese advocated reducing spending in 2022 and couldn't even manage 5% of the vote.
Macron couldn't even increase retirement age to 65 because France doesn't want it.
Next time will likely be a choice of two parties who both said retirement age will be reduced to 60.
It's because Canada and Denmark are less socialist than france. But generally speaking, what we are seeing is the end of socialism in the EU.
Yet again, socialism has failed to work, and it will always fail. When it fails, there are riots and violence.
We are seeing that EU companies are moving outside the EU, one recent example is that Volvo Cars are firing 2500 workers, and the EU laws and regulations will make this pattern repeat itself.
In the end, either EU will have to embrace capitalism, or it will break apart when nationalist parties promise that they have the easy solution, and do their own thing. I think actually breaking apart EU would be the best option.
Putting aside brainrot terms like socialism and capitalism, do you think the rich are too constrained in how they operate and that weakening labor will make us all better off?
As someone who lived the first Internet block due to protests with similar demands. This feels refreshing and prove that regimes response to wide spread protests they don’t like is not that different.
But please don’t call it European spring.
great idea! enjoy Euro Spring :)
Maybe Libya should bomb the shit out of France this time?
I mean it's europes fall right now not spring
Why not just allow genuinely peaceful protests and take stern police/legal action against all other forms of protest? I don't understand the logic behind cutting access to communications platforms. Seems like an indirect or roundabout way of solving the problem.
Social/IM platforms are literally where the violent ones organize. Nobody has issues with the peaceful protests, but in the past couple weeks it's become very clear that violent rioters use the excuse of the peaceful organized protest to infiltrate and wreak havoc, using the peaceful demonstrators as essentially meat shields. That needs to stop. And without readily available social/IM platforms, there's no way the violent ones can coordinate in the hundreds/thousands on a couple hours notice.
How do you think non violent and peaceful demonstrators organise?
[delayed]
That's how it works. Until there's so much rioting the police can't deal with it. What should happen then? Cutting communications seems like a pretty good idea.
The rioters are causing damage they themselves will have to pay for in taxpayer dollars. So their cost of living will go up. The way French people protest is mental. I’m sure the Russians have agents on the ground inciting violence.
The people are concerned about the cost of oil I mean it’s the bombs that hit Iran that caused this not the French government.
Am I missing something? What drives people to burn shops down and assault people the next steps is assault rifles, so they should be happy without social media.
The _rioters_ aren't concerned with anything other than looting.
French riot police aren’t great at dealing with protests — and they protesters know this, so the protests escalate rapidly then throw in looting and you end up with a massive mess
How about giving in to the demands of protestors?
Some of the demands are well-intentioned but poorly thought through.
Example: many believe the rich ought to be taxed more; but the problem is the Laffer curve: when they're taxed too much, they work less or leave France. So tax receipts go down (not up). End result: more "fairness" on paper but the people who actually depend on government funding have less of it (e.g. for education).
So the change harms the very people who are protesting for the change.
Taxing rich people, while being a recurring topic, is not part of the current demands. It's firstly high schoolers who want a fair system after the "bac", heat during winter and a roof on their head.
It depends on which part of the curve you are on
Genius idea!
The way the French response overcomplicates things feels analogous to how founders also overcomplicate things:
> many of the conversations we have with founders begin with the founders saying a sentence that begins with "how do I.." and the partner answering with a sentence that begins with "just".
i.e. Often the most absurdly simple solution is the best one.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii1jcLg-eIQ&t=654s
Because very often the "peaceful protest" provides cover to rioting/looting/property destruction, and it's a lot easier to say/enforce no assembling on the street at 11pm on a Friday as part of a curfew, than to leave a carveout for assembling on that street for a "peaceful protest".
[dead]
It seems French society will soon embark on the path to total VPNization. Once the government gets a taste of blocking Internet resources, it won't stop.
They are already trying to make them outlawed... I don't like criticizing the country but the national motto's first word, there are making it nothing but a joke. Apparently you are only free to hate now, and that's if you hate the right kind of people... Bolstered by fascists united worldwide. A shame.
During the 2011 London riots, there were proposals to ban Blackberry.
Isn’t that sort of ironic, because BlackBerry was used disproportionately by government and corporate clients? Wouldn’t a ban basically cut off the very people who should have been favoured?
At the time all the kids were on BBM and the businesses had moved to iOS.
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Social media permits Broadcasting for Free. One to All messaging. For all other media - radio, satellite, tv, phones broadcasting requires licenses. Why?
Cuz Claude Shannon told us if everyone broadcasts on the same frequency noise increases and no one hears anything forcing them into broadcasting at higher and higher power or repeating their messages more and more. Which again increases noise. So Broadcasting has always been licensed and regulated. That solved the Noise problem because people were forced to coordinate use of broadcast spectrum.
Social media platforms act as if Shannon doesn't apply. So they do exactly what Shannon predicted. Everyone is broadcasting. No one can be heard clearly. People scream louder and louder. The loudest get locked into arms races. Repeat their messages more and more. At the end of it all Noise hasnt reduced and who gets attention from one day to the next is unpredicatble. And since Platforms dont want to talk about Shannon we are all stuck in some kind of red queen dynamic. People are expending lot of energy. Results are all temporary and unpredictable.
That’s an interesting analogy, but it breaks down somewhat when the messages that get through are those chosen by the government (Facebook, Google, etc) rather than people shouting louder.
Are you suggesting that governments should regulate platforms more, like they do physical spectrum?
I dont know the solution. But I think Shannon is being brushed under the carpet. Noise levels and random outcomes speak for themselves.
You mixing broadcast band physical phenomenon with censorship.
“liberticide”
Parfait.
Seems like he really wants to limit the spread of videos showcasing the behaviour of the protesters, and their backgrounds... This goes hand in hand with his pathetic speech about how it's all fake news and AI.
Protesters are the normal jille-jaunes and teenagers, throw in the typical French burning tyres, smashing cars etc, nothing new.
The looting is mainly the immigrants.
Collateral damage
title says DNS, article says access, so which is it?
Hahahaha
Good luck France.
You'd think a 1st world country would know about VPNs but not this one
And that's how VPNs are banned through DPI.
And yes, you can in theory install the same software used to punch through the Chinese firewall, but if it doesn't appear in the app store or google play, your new VPN is as good as dead.
There are no technical solutions to political and social problems.
Everyone and his dog uses VPNs in China.
Not implying I agree with the decision, but I don’t think VPNs make this less effective. VPNs may be used by what, 0.1% of all users?
~20% in France, by one estimate (https://browsec.com/en/blog/vpn-usage-statistics)
Blocking popular websites is certainly going to boost this number, dramatically.
France has been blocking a lot of websites, some quite popular, since at least the Nappster wars and has expanded and expanded and expanded. Recent victims are Z-library, Anna's archive, a lot of satellite TV viewing websites, illegal streaming websites, ...
Of course reasons to block websites has expanded dramatically, especially into the political realm. For political examples, websites collecting video evidence police actions during protests "Copwatch Nord Paris I-D-F", a lot of extreme-right websites (some arguably not very extreme, or should I say, every year that passes the bar of what means extreme-right for blocking purposes is lowered), VPNs, oh and "right-to-be-forgotten" stuff (blocking a number of groups who published details on important French and EU political figures, generally failing to achieve their goal. For a high profile example, ex-president Nicolas Sarkozy used internet censorship to hide evidence of fraud, but got convicted anyway. There's also the example of ... I don't like to agree with the extreme right on anything, BUT, it is sadly absolutely true that LFI (a far left political party, or whatever you want to call leftists that, while absolutely not tankies, are not particularly opposed to using violence to achieve their aims. I think that's fair to say about them) is using internet censorship laws for everything from protecting their members against the police to silencing even internal criticism. Of course it is ALSO true RN commits far more problematic violence)
(obviously the reason LFI wants its members protected from the police, and school administrations and ... is the organizing violence thing they do. A lot of people agree at least with the aims of the protests, and it's not like these people commit murder or anything. But they certainly do cause a lot of destruction of property)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_France
> VPNs may be used by what, 0.1% of all users?
Probably, since not many of us in Europe don't have lots of use cases for them, yet.
But things like our (Spain's) "internet shall not be 100% available during La Liga football matches" or our neighbors thinking of blocking DNS to stop political activism, surely will continue to make this number raise, albeit slowly.
I know there’s a subsection of the internet who for some reason believe VPNs are the solution to everything and better than sliced bread, but VPNs are absolutely unnecessary (and frankly overkill) for these types of blocks. All you have to do is change the DNS service on your machine, which is trivial even for non-technical users and unlike a VPN doesn’t disrupt anything about your computer usage.
Can I change the DNS on my iPhone? I know how to do that with a computer but not iPhones. Androids are probably easier to set up.
You can install an app like 1.1.1.1 to use Cloudflare and there are many apps that will do it for generic DNS. Or manually but you will need to create DNS Profile and install it. It is not hard to generate one, but it is usually used for encrypted DNS which you should be using anyway.
There’s no setting for mobile data, but for WiFi you can go into the network settings and override DNS.
"Students" from 3th world do not know about VPNs.
Real rioters will dive into no-DNS internet communication. Most internet protocols were designed with DNS independence in mind (read the email RFC, email addresses can have IP literals instead of DNS names which is of paramount importance, which I use BTW).
Namely, in the end, they will have to switch off telecommunication as a whole... well, if they are not interested in gathering intelligence about the rioters.
And then real rioters will have 'mesh communication devices', and then govs will need EM jammers too.
Sooo... govs should work on good and wide spread EM jammers instead of trying to to block DNS...
This is dystopian.
Meta’s content algo is engineered for sensationalism. It inherently encourages instability.
People socializing at all inherently encourages instability for the government.
Not if the government is for, by, and of the people.
For more on the algorithm not being good
https://www.panamericandispatch.org/p/meta-ignores-brazilian...
Instability isn’t a bad thing through, that’s what drives progress.
Want more stability? Shut down medias for a year before any elections to "smooth" the public debate.
Lol
Wait till you read some of the far left or right newspapers and leaflets in France. Why aren't those being banned?
Censorship.
I am all for eliminating the antisocial media and the billionaires behind them as well, but I fail to see how censorship fixes anything.
antisocial media is far more accurate than the original name.
When people are rioting for things that didn't happen, because they think they did, because of messages being sent to them by an enemy, then you stop that enemy.
Although the current riots precisely start because stuff that did not happen: having a stable teacher (or at all) for the courses they’re suppose to study.
Can we have this worldwide and forever?
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Marcon got rid of the inheritance tax, cut worker's rights, and reduced the capital gains tax. He also tried to raise the retirement age but people protested so much, it was blocked eventually.
How is this socialist policy?
Yes, the threshold of tolerating illegal immigration and of tolerating infinite handouts for retirees
Socialist state?
More like that Macron does not stop spending too much. Countries such as Denmark or Canada show how to do better than Macron did.
Both Melenchon and Le Pen have promised to increase spending and reduce taxes. That type of promise is a great vote winner, and people believe it. In 2022 Pecrese advocated reducing spending in 2022 and couldn't even manage 5% of the vote.
Macron couldn't even increase retirement age to 65 because France doesn't want it.
Next time will likely be a choice of two parties who both said retirement age will be reduced to 60.
It's because Canada and Denmark are less socialist than france. But generally speaking, what we are seeing is the end of socialism in the EU.
Yet again, socialism has failed to work, and it will always fail. When it fails, there are riots and violence.
We are seeing that EU companies are moving outside the EU, one recent example is that Volvo Cars are firing 2500 workers, and the EU laws and regulations will make this pattern repeat itself.
In the end, either EU will have to embrace capitalism, or it will break apart when nationalist parties promise that they have the easy solution, and do their own thing. I think actually breaking apart EU would be the best option.
Putting aside brainrot terms like socialism and capitalism, do you think the rich are too constrained in how they operate and that weakening labor will make us all better off?
There has never been socialism in the EU.
You mean like USA does, tearing themselves and world apart, becomming authoritarian and putting all money and power into hands of technofascist CEO.
Democratic socialist Europe was able to hold the line longer. Maybe it failes, but America failed faster.