do you think, if there was real oppression people could even vote democratically and change their government?
I think you don't know what is oppression then.
(not downplaying how bad Vucic had been to Serbia, but the fact that people replaced him without violence and democratically means something still was in place)
> do you think, if there was real oppression people could even vote democratically and change their government?
Sorry, they get no bonus point for accepting the elections’ results. It’s the bare minimum if they want to pretend to be in a democracy. It does not make them any less oppressive. See also Orban and the PiS.
Now they have some time in the opposition to build something credible to get back into power if they really want it.
There are certainly different levels of oppression and autocracy.
Here it was designed and made to look like a democracy, but it really required a 70% turnout and 50%+ of people voting against the ruling party for them to accept defeat, especially as there are still large vote thefts going on (to the order of 5-10% of the entire voting population). Basically, anything less than 50% would have put the country in turmoil and violence — again.
As a tidbit, we've got 6.4M registered voters (18+) in a country of 6.5M people. There are a few explanations about how that works, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
What is the point of this "no true Scotsman" comment, exactly? To defend Vucic? Or to say that what the people managed to do wasn't very hard because they managed to do it?
I'm just afraid Elon will invite the Russian but operators onto xAI servers in time for the midterms. Or they find another home in Kasachstan. I'm guessing they are quite mobile.
I'm talking about the overwhelmingly negative view portrayed here. I still remember back when he was on the front page of HN a few days in a row because supposably he did a Nazi salute.
Meanwhile, in Bulgaria there was the presidential election that no one cared about so the turnout is in the %20 and the pro-Russian candidate severely underperformed. It was expected to be %47 vs %30, ended up being in the %30 for both the pro-Russian and the pro-western candidates.
Also the stronghold of Erdogan is crumbling with the collapse of $20B ponzi scheme where all the winners happen to be from Erdogan’s inner circle.
It’s overall a feeling of earth moving in Europe again.
It is not really a party — it's a nomination list by the protest-organising students — and the people really voted against the ruling party.
The idea is for this to enable true democracy to re-appear, and then actual parties would battle it out in the next elections.
I'd say the risk to political stability in Serbia remains, but just like in any functioning democracy, what matters is that there is regular change and politicians understand that they are soon to be replaced (this avoids the levels of corruption that is multiples of base government project costs and actually cost lives).
It still blows my mind that people on here delude themselves with thinking a pro-conservative piece would ever hit the main page for any meaningful period of time. Not that I care, I'm neither conservative nor do I come into HN thinking it's not heavily tainted one way. But how someone arrives at the opposite result still baffles me.
What a beautiful day. 14 years of oppression, absolute power, no media freedom, and the most ridiculously botted internet down the drain.
Same thing happened in Hungary earlier this year, after 16 years of Orbán (and FWIW, the two are / were "good friends").
Interesting times.
do you think, if there was real oppression people could even vote democratically and change their government?
I think you don't know what is oppression then.
(not downplaying how bad Vucic had been to Serbia, but the fact that people replaced him without violence and democratically means something still was in place)
> do you think, if there was real oppression people could even vote democratically and change their government?
Sorry, they get no bonus point for accepting the elections’ results. It’s the bare minimum if they want to pretend to be in a democracy. It does not make them any less oppressive. See also Orban and the PiS.
Now they have some time in the opposition to build something credible to get back into power if they really want it.
There are certainly different levels of oppression and autocracy.
Here it was designed and made to look like a democracy, but it really required a 70% turnout and 50%+ of people voting against the ruling party for them to accept defeat, especially as there are still large vote thefts going on (to the order of 5-10% of the entire voting population). Basically, anything less than 50% would have put the country in turmoil and violence — again.
As a tidbit, we've got 6.4M registered voters (18+) in a country of 6.5M people. There are a few explanations about how that works, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
Dead people not removed from the registry?
"not downplaying how bad Vucic had been to Serbia".
But you are, though.
Oppression is not binary. And modern forms make it extremely difficult to hold the oppressive governments accountable.
What is the point of this "no true Scotsman" comment, exactly? To defend Vucic? Or to say that what the people managed to do wasn't very hard because they managed to do it?
Would you also say for example, that there was no suppression in the GDR?
I'm just afraid Elon will invite the Russian but operators onto xAI servers in time for the midterms. Or they find another home in Kasachstan. I'm guessing they are quite mobile.
Just laughing quietly to myself at the thought there is someone out there who believes they are not already there.
I always get a laugh of HN's caricatures of Elon.
It isn't a caricature. Elon already lets bots run rampant on Twitter.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46345330
I'm talking about the overwhelmingly negative view portrayed here. I still remember back when he was on the front page of HN a few days in a row because supposably he did a Nazi salute.
Insightful.-
Meanwhile, in Bulgaria there was the presidential election that no one cared about so the turnout is in the %20 and the pro-Russian candidate severely underperformed. It was expected to be %47 vs %30, ended up being in the %30 for both the pro-Russian and the pro-western candidates.
Also the stronghold of Erdogan is crumbling with the collapse of $20B ponzi scheme where all the winners happen to be from Erdogan’s inner circle.
It’s overall a feeling of earth moving in Europe again.
Le Pen? AfD?
Is the HN political take always "right very bad left very good" with zero after-thought about why many European countries are turning right?
What about them?
Gaining ground in the two largest EU countries.
Every movement has a counter movement.
Finally, time for the cleanup.
Is this new party cohesive enough or will it split into infighting?
It is not really a party — it's a nomination list by the protest-organising students — and the people really voted against the ruling party.
The idea is for this to enable true democracy to re-appear, and then actual parties would battle it out in the next elections.
I'd say the risk to political stability in Serbia remains, but just like in any functioning democracy, what matters is that there is regular change and politicians understand that they are soon to be replaced (this avoids the levels of corruption that is multiples of base government project costs and actually cost lives).
Good. The world needs fewer fascists and nationalists in power.
By any means necessary.
How is this Hackernews?
Disrupting the incumbent authoritarian while surviving LRAD attacks is pretty darn bad ass, and teaches lessons to us all.
On the incumbent side, even when you seem to have all control on your side, you can go too far in your corruption(civility/product/whatever) and lose.
Very interestingly to me, SM’s network effects make them extremely resistant to this type of user-led correction. Or, am I taking this too far?
The student protest movement “hacked” the authoritarian rule.
It reminds that those feelings invincible may actually not be.
Like programmers, so sure of their fat paychecks just a few years ago? Deep
Agreed, why should serbia get a thread and not BC's massive flip from far left to conservatives with last night landslide win.
If you submit an article about that people who find it interesting may upvote it and it may end up on the front page, like this one.
It still blows my mind that people on here delude themselves with thinking a pro-conservative piece would ever hit the main page for any meaningful period of time. Not that I care, I'm neither conservative nor do I come into HN thinking it's not heavily tainted one way. But how someone arrives at the opposite result still baffles me.
You didn't submit the BC story.