Interesting that the tech ban has resulted in US companies slowly but steadily loosing the worlds largest market for computer hardware. I wonder what will happen when China has saturated its home market and starts out-competing US companies internationally.
If cpu x90, then process smic n+2, probably still ASML DUVs... if not implication profound. Even if domestic tooling, can't imagine this full end to end, they're aggressively indigenizing and validating all the semi inputs, i.e. gases, chemicals last few years but seems too early to have all parts covered. When they do (unlikely now) in which case, yeah probably PRC only country with entire closed loop indigenous semi chain -> hardware -> software stack. On the other hand I wouldn't put past that some very low volume 100% domestic trial line exist.
no, they just use ARM instructions set, the core design such as CPU, GPU, NPU, etc is all their own, like Apple. OS is not fork of Android, there is no Android code in HarmonyOS. HarmonyOS uses Linux kernel but has its own user space systems.
Except now both Kirin X90 and HarmonyOS are their own thing. Just like Android itself is based off Linux, but is its own thing now too. What matters is that the chips and the OS are developed domestically in China without reliance on British or American companies.
So not really 100% domestic since it runs on ARM and is built using C, C++, Rust and JavaScript but they are close. I prefer something more open like Linux or more integrated like macOS, but fun for them.
C and C++ are ISO standards, with multiple implementations.
JavaScript is an ECMA/ISO standard, with multiple implementations.
Rust is sponsored by an international foundation.
Additionally, Harmony OS is its own thing, it has long stop being an Android fork, with ArkTS and Cangjie, as the main way to develop applications for the platform.
By that standard, a computer designed and made in USA that would use ARM and C++ would not be American, because at their initial origins ARM was British and C++ Danish (and inspired by the Norwegian SIMULA 67). Even the C programming language cannot be called American by your methodology, because it includes many features taken from the ALGOL 68 language, which were introduced in it mainly by a Dutch team.
The reality is that computer technology is global. It does not belong to any single country.
If you analyze any piece of hardware or software, it aggregates various elements that have their origins in many countries.
What matters is whether you can design and build a complete system, not from where you might have learned each of the great number of things required for this.
This will make some people very angry because, according to them, you are supposed to close up shop, not build internal capacity and capabilities, when America sanctions you.
In retrospect, the Huawei ban might have been the best thing that happened to Chinese tech sector
Interesting that the tech ban has resulted in US companies slowly but steadily loosing the worlds largest market for computer hardware. I wonder what will happen when China has saturated its home market and starts out-competing US companies internationally.
Interesting, with a tagline like '100% domestic' I would have expected this to be RISC-V based but it's actually ARM.
I believe this is still ARM China, not ARM ARM ( I can't remember what's the name they used in China ).
China took direct control of the Chinese ARM subsidiary years ago.
That’s a pretty big deal if that 100% is genuinely deep/all the way.
Don’t think any other country can do end to end in house?
If cpu x90, then process smic n+2, probably still ASML DUVs... if not implication profound. Even if domestic tooling, can't imagine this full end to end, they're aggressively indigenizing and validating all the semi inputs, i.e. gases, chemicals last few years but seems too early to have all parts covered. When they do (unlikely now) in which case, yeah probably PRC only country with entire closed loop indigenous semi chain -> hardware -> software stack. On the other hand I wouldn't put past that some very low volume 100% domestic trial line exist.
The CPU is based on ARM and English company that designs CPUs, and the OS is a fork of Android which is American.
fwiw harmonyos hasnt used android/linux for a few years. they still support apks via an aosp container, though
no, they just use ARM instructions set, the core design such as CPU, GPU, NPU, etc is all their own, like Apple. OS is not fork of Android, there is no Android code in HarmonyOS. HarmonyOS uses Linux kernel but has its own user space systems.
Except now both Kirin X90 and HarmonyOS are their own thing. Just like Android itself is based off Linux, but is its own thing now too. What matters is that the chips and the OS are developed domestically in China without reliance on British or American companies.
If you count Russia then US obviously can as well. If you lower the bar even slightly further to 80s/90s tech even more countries would qualify.
I assumed the US was included as a given, what with Intel here
The US can. There are domestic packaging people and board houses. I think the EU can but I'm not sure and that's not a country.
https://archive.ph/7g2LM
So not really 100% domestic since it runs on ARM and is built using C, C++, Rust and JavaScript but they are close. I prefer something more open like Linux or more integrated like macOS, but fun for them.
ARM is a design not an implementation.
C and C++ are ISO standards, with multiple implementations.
JavaScript is an ECMA/ISO standard, with multiple implementations.
Rust is sponsored by an international foundation.
Additionally, Harmony OS is its own thing, it has long stop being an Android fork, with ArkTS and Cangjie, as the main way to develop applications for the platform.
https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/en/arkts
https://cangjie-lang.cn/en
By that standard, a computer designed and made in USA that would use ARM and C++ would not be American, because at their initial origins ARM was British and C++ Danish (and inspired by the Norwegian SIMULA 67). Even the C programming language cannot be called American by your methodology, because it includes many features taken from the ALGOL 68 language, which were introduced in it mainly by a Dutch team.
The reality is that computer technology is global. It does not belong to any single country.
If you analyze any piece of hardware or software, it aggregates various elements that have their origins in many countries.
What matters is whether you can design and build a complete system, not from where you might have learned each of the great number of things required for this.
[dead]
Huawei has a 'good news' drop ready for every time the rest of tech has a bad day. At this point it is quite evident that the US/euro moves against Huawei/China were badly miscalculated, and have only served to focus and motivate them, and it's the reality of bieng cut off from imported tech that is actualy very good for there R and D , marketing, financial management, investment, manufacturing,government planning and regulation, gone is the need to juggle importing the 'latest' tech,with domestic production, and now nobody can say diddly boo about them bieng protectionist, ever again. Worse, a look at what Chinas imports before the tech ban were will almost certainly be an exact match for the margin that big tech needed to stay afloat this week. Extra worse, everybody, even microsoft and apple hard cores are going to wonder if the Huawei desktop is actualy just simple and nice to use, but we wont know because we , yes, us, have FREEDOM FROM CHOICE™®©
we are living in a cartoon distopian apocalyps as drawn by the worst petulant office dweeb who is doing WAY to much acid on the weekends
> we are living in a cartoon distopian apocalyps as drawn by the worst petulant office dweeb who is doing WAY to much acid on the weekends
I don't think their weekdays are any different.
This will make some people very angry because, according to them, you are supposed to close up shop, not build internal capacity and capabilities, when America sanctions you.
who is "some people"?
USA China hawks, people want to attack China
That always made me laugh. Like, what did you expect them to do? Shrivel up and become a vassal state?
This seems significant.
And no ASML
"100% designed & produced in China" doesn't exclude the possibility of "using ASML machine to process the wafers".
That said: entirely possible it includes "home-grown wafer stepper machines". Article is light on the details here.
They are working on their own machines, it’s not clear if they have something used production yet or not. They will get there eventually.
After the parent article, the next article is about a Chinese start-up showing for the first time a prototype for EUV lithography.
However, they estimate that they will reach the stage when this can be used in production in 3 to 5 years.